Most Overrated Band of the 'Big Six' |
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Flight123
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Very funny indeed! By far the strongest of the six bands listed! |
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octopus-4
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Eventually Leading Polls
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Warthur
Prog Reviewer Joined: January 06 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 617 |
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Preach it, Jean - so long as we've got our personal favourites the whole idea of a single, canonical "Big 6" is nowt more than a popularity contest. It looks like everyone has their own assessment of what "overrated" means, so for my vote I interpreted as "the group which least merits its place in the Big 6". That doesn't mean the most overrated band is bad or worthless necessarily, just that they're taking up a spot in the Big 6 and enjoyed more commercial success which other groups surely deserve more. I eventually decided to assess it on the basis of how much top-notch material each band had put out - all of them have produced stuff I like, all of them have had fallow patches where I wasn't so keen on their output, so really what I feel counts is how much material each of them released which truly qualifies as a "keeper". I only counted studio albums (except when considering live albums with a substantial amount of material that didn't get a studio release), on the basis that any band could conceivably crank out a lot of high-quality live albums if they just recorded the same limited set list over and over, whereas the demands of studio albums mean that groups need to keep adding new material to their repertoire, so once the studio albums start to get tepid that's a good sign that a band's creative well has run dry. So, taking them in reverse order of votes received: YES: Didn't like their first couple albums, but the run of 6 albums from The Yes Album to Going For the One is absolutely superb, and I'm one of those guys who thinks Drama deserves more love too. So 7 really solid studio albums, a high benchmark indeed. KING CRIMSON: Had one of the patchier careers out there, with a lot of flailing around looking for creative directions at times, but when they're hot, they're HOT. Debut album is a legitimate classic, the mid-70s Fripp/Bruford/Wetton/(Cross)/(Muir) run turned out a great trilogy of albums, and the 80s triptych is great too. 7 great albums puts King Crimson on a par with Yes. JETHRO TULL: Started out a bit reliant on the "woah, he's playing a flute" gimmick and, like Crimson, a bit variable when it came to quality control, but when they're good, they're good. Aqualung and Thick as a Brick are classics for a reason, Minstrel In the Gallery deserves more love, and Songs From the Wood/Heavy Horses are decent too. I also quite appreciate the bits of Passion Play which aren't The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles, though that dang Hare kind of ruins it for me and I dislike editions of the album which don't let me skip him. Say 5 and a half top-rank albums. PINK FLOYD: Debut was excellent, flailed around a bit in the wake of Syd but some good bits here and there, about half of Meddle is really good, then you have the run from Dark Side of the Moon to Animals. Say 4.75 great albums' worth. GENESIS: Here's the only bit where I really disagree with the general balance of the voting - the run from Trespass to Wind and Wuthering is truly magical, and the Duke Suite on Duke is pretty decent too. Say 7 and a half great albums - no surprise that they're my favourite of the Big 6. So it'll come as no surprise that I voted for: ELP: First album was great, side 1 of Tarkus was great, it kind of fell off a cliff after that. Can't stand the novelty tracks, and I find Emerson's particular schtick wears really thin after a while. One and a half decent albums. Also, you could probably make a case that ELP's adaptations of classical music were, whilst technically proficient, not so much an innovation of ELP themselves so much as a continuation of Keith Emerson's work in The Nice. I can see why people may want to honour Emerson for his whole "rockin' the classics" schtick, but surely just as much credit needs to be given to The Nice as ELP - if not more so, since when he did it with ELP his previous work had already admirably proved that there was a market for that stuff, whereas when he did it with The Nice it was much more of a creative and commercial risk. So I'd actually say that ELP are given a bit too much critical credit and too much importance in prog history compared to The Nice, in addition to being more popular than their recorded output really merited. As for bands which I think deserved Big 6 status more than ELP, there's loads I can think of just from the 1970s with a better track record - Camel, Caravan, pretty much anyone on Jean's list for that matter...
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Hrychu
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I hate the term overrated.
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someone_else
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I hate overrating.
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emigre80
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you are not alone. It doesn't bother me - I think it's a useful category of analysis - but it really seems to set some people on this forum off.
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Warthur
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I think it's a flashpoint because it's one of those terms that superficially sounds precise, but actually has a huge potential range of meanings depending on just how you measure "overrated", with the result that people end up talking past each other and getting mad at someone saying something is/isn't overrated when actually, if they put the break on, they'd probably find what they disagree with is the other person's definition of "overrated" rather than the actual analysis.
Edited by Warthur - January 15 2016 at 08:19 |
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Cambus741
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I must admit that I haven't read all through the thread, but there is no way that I'd have Jethro Tull included in some sort of elite instead of Marillion
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Cambus741
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If I'm going to be completely subjective then I'd take king Crimson out as they are the only one out of those six that I have never got into any of their stuff at all
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Guillermo
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Adrian Belew's King Crimson.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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scruffydragon
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I think all those bands made progress in the music they were playing and finding new ways to thrill us except for one.I just feel that ELP were little more then a continuation of The Nice. It's just my personal feeling about them. Apart from Tarkus none of their albums really shine and even with Tarkus its only the first half of the album that grabs my attention. Sorry peeps .
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emigre80
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exactly, which is why these threads spend more time arguing whether "overrated" is a valid category of analysis and what it actually means than discussing the music.
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progadicto
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None... They've got some great and awful albums but the six are really AWSOME!!!
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... E N E L B U N K E R...
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Necrotica
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Definitely ELP. Their "songs" often felt more like exercises in virtuosity and self-indulgence than actual well-constructed and well-paced songs. I do enjoy their debut and Tarkus a lot, but anything after that is incredibly patchy or hit-or-miss for me.
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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Upbeat Tango Monday
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Floyd is the most overrated, and ELP the most underrated
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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.
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micky
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you can't overrate Floyd.. one can only mis categorize them. They don't belong as part of any half ass Big 6. They were progressive.. not prog. That is like calling the Beatles a big 6 prog group. there were only the Big 3 and a definite second tier below that.. but definite clappies for the ELP wisdom man.. Even if they weren't as interesting as they were ..they'd still be the most interesting of prog bands. The one band that could win both overrated and underrated polls. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Frenetic Zetetic
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ELP no question for me.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Mortte
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ELP again.
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lostrom
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I don't even see Jethro Tull as one of any "big six", I'd rather put Camel or Gentle Giant there instead.
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lostrom
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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ELP is an easy target so I didn't pick them. I actually should have voted for KC but wound up voting for Jethro Tull. Why? Because they weren't that consistent and also they are less prog than all the others(imo). They did some prog stuff but not as much as the others. Also some of their later albums were just not that good and even some of the earlier ones and mid period ones. Still, I like them so it was not easy to single out one of these bands. ELP get a bad rap these days for excess but their first four albums stand as some of the best prog rock albums ever made imo. Even some of the later ones(except for most of Love Beach)aren't that bad and deserve a listen(especially black moon and ELPowell).
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