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Gerinski 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
 Topic: Abundance of one-man "bands" in modern progPosted: December 22 2012 at 04:38 |
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When going through the reviews in the home page I can't help noticing the apparent increase of one-man albums in modern prog (sometimes supported by a couple of guests). I have to admit that I have not listened to many of them.
This has surely been fueled by the new technologies which enable one musician to record and mix all the instruments (real or sampled ones) from the comfort of their home studio.
While it surely has its positive side enabling easier release of music, I'm one of those who think that much of the great music from the past came to being thanks to the chemistry of different musicians playing together and feedbacking each other's creativity. Anyone who has played in a band has experienced those magical moments when all the members seem to "click" in a synchronized state of mind and some amazing music comes out. What started as a jam may produce a sudden fragment of wonderful music which can then be taken and developed into a proper song.
One-man musicians can "jam with themselves" by recording tracks and then improvising on them with another instrument to try to come up with ideas, but the recorded tracks can not react back and change themselves while playing. There is no feedback possible.
Do you think the abundance of modern one-man projects is a good thing or does it tend to lower the creativity level in modern prog?
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 04:52 |
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One listen to the Sula Bassana (a.k.a. Dave Schmidt) album 'The Night' should offer a positive perspective as to the level of creativity and quality of craftsmanship one person can achieve. It has a lot of sensitivity, atmosphere, contrasts and spontaneity.
If music is good, it doesn't matter if it's done by 1 person or a band.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 05:19 |
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I have not heard the album but of course I can not disagree, that goes without saying. I was referring to the phenomenon as a general trend.
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 05:32 |
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As a one-man band I find it easiler that's all. I have worked with others and found it difficult, I have tried providing complete scores, partial melodies and allowing the musician in question to do whatever they like - in all cases I have told them to change anything they wanted. Oddly, there was a relucance to do that - even when a (very compitent) guitaritst described one of my tunes as a "complete mind-f***" he wouldn't change it (or allow it to be changed) to make it easier to play - he took it as a technical challenge and I have to say he nailed it perfectly. While I fully appreciate his performance during that session and he did play something that I could never nave played myself, it was not a collaboration, the final track was still esentially a one-man product with a guest sessions musician. Since then he has improvised over one of my backing tracks and we have collaborated on joint compositions but we never finshed any of those projects - and I find uncompleted projects to be wholly unsatisfactory.
When recording a one-man album I do listen to each stage of the recording and feedback what I hear and change things as necessary, tracks will be completely restructured and rewritten if a later idea warrants that change, just as a writer will self-edit a piece of prose that doesn't work or needs to be rewritten or a painter will correct or discard a painting that doesn't work. No one would claim that a novel or piece of artwork suffered from not being a collaboration or group effort.
There is no denying that one man projects do not have that collaboration creativity, but then all Classical compositions are one-man projects and no one would say that Bach, Mozart or Bernstein et al lack creativity. The difference between classical compositions, band tracks composed by one man and modern one-man Prog is not the creative composition, it is the playing and interpretation. No two recordings of a classical composition are the same, yet all recorded albums are judged as a single one-off performance and a single one-off composition.
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2011 Location: Melb, Australia Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 05:33 |
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Totally agree with my friend Tom here, Gerinski! Lately I've encountered several albums that I truly cannot believe were put together by `one man', as they not only sound seamlessly like a full band, but the arrangements are frequently complicated and involving.
Maybe check out these few albums, really shows what one guy can achieve well! MENDEL - Subliminal Colours ZEROTHEHERO - Nowhere Also Tom's suggestion of that Sula album `The Night' is also superb! But long story short, I think both a full band and these new solo-act releases both are capable of terrific progressive rock! They certainly offer more than one-man singer/songwriter blandness! |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 05:34 |
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As soon as you had the tape recorder able to record tracks seperately this was happening.
I dont find it a problem at all.
There will still be the urge to be able to play live, so there will always be a lot of Group based music created.
Its like with Films, they dont take anything from Acting, they just ad another way of doing things.
Photo not ruining the greatness of oil painting, ect ect.
Actualy what the new techs development does, its opening up new genres, but we still got a load of acustic instruments played, after the development of electric guitars.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 06:47 |
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@ Dean, what you describe (sending files, scores or tracks to other musicians and let them add their input or modify them) is not what I was referring to which was the magical moments of inspirational feedback which can only happen when playing together.
I have played in band (amateur level) and have experienced them so I guessed that most other people who have played and jammed in band must have too. You may be jamming with a riff on guitar and suddenly the bassist may come with a different bass line which would never have occurred to you and yet fits perfectly, that new bass line triggers you to try some variations on what you were playing on the guitar, the keyboardist may jump in with a quirky arpeggio which again is not the kind of thing you would normally think of, then the drummer finds a different rhythm which somehow fits more nicely than the one you had started with, that triggers some other idea by some other member etc. One-man compositions / performances can of course be as great as any band effort, but they can never have the particular property of capturing in some magical amalgam the different personalities and influences of the different band members. You may modify and re-do whatever you want but it will still be your composition, arising from a single brain. Different inputs do not necessarily mean a better composition, of course, but they can provide an additional dimension of richness when they get it right.
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zerothehero76
Forum Newbie 
Joined: November 01 2009 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 32 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 07:40 |
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Well, I'm quite interested in this topic! To me, it's just a matter of time and ego! In my band (fungus), there are mainly three songwriters: guitarist, singer and me. Everyone of us presents his work to the band, and it can receive a *yes* or a *no*, according to quality and mood. And some songs just don't fit in our band, and sadly remain unused. BUT when the answer is *yes*, it means a painful and long process of improvisation, arrangement and re-thinking has to start and start again. In the end, we have something really different from the original composition, and if you listen to original demos you always find so many differences with the "finished product"! If I was a full-time musican, I'd give this "treatment" to every song. But this has to be kept just for the best gems, as time is not infinite...
an example: http://zero-the-hero.bandcamp.com/track/raindrops : this is the second (middle) part of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdcZ3MdxMI . I decided to keep both (I cut first and third part in my "final version", because I can't sing so well
 ) , but band work in arrangement has been so deep that they are two different songs. |
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 07:45 |
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EDIT: Aimed at Garinski, zerothehero got in whilst I was typring.
The problem there is that you are pre-supposing that a lot of bands create music through jamming. I don't doubt that there are quite a few, but lets not forget that there is a very substantial portion of music in general where the band is dominated by a single personality who will write most of the music him/her self and the rest of the band will only offer small variations. No one way of going about writing music, whether in a full band setting or as a one-man band or whatever, is more valid than another and each method will have it's own pro's and cons. For instance I for one hope that Kayo Dot remains solely under Toby Driver's musical vision, while at the same time I thoroughly enjoy the music made by Marillion which is created entirely through jamming. Edited by sleeper - December 22 2012 at 07:47 |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 07:46 |
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Band jamming/ is both fun, and able to create a uniq blend of creative inputs rearranging the idears.
But the question was :
"Does it (one man albums) tend to lower the creativity level in modern prog?"
I dont think it will.
Edited by tamijo - December 22 2012 at 07:46 |
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 08:46 |
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There's no question that the new times are causing a significant part of the youth to get more socially isolated, they remain at home hooked to their computers and interact with others electronically, human direct interaction and teamwork is weakening in many areas.
Once again I have all respect for one-man musicians but similarly I was just wondering if this is becoming also a trend in music, where more and more musicians will be happy enough to produce their own work by themselves and the concept of band music will eventually fall into oblivion, somehow limiting the richness of the musical output we as audience get. For sure we are still far from that, but if the trend becomes stronger and stronger could it be a reason for concern? or not? Reflecting about this was the purpose of the thread, not putting in doubt that one-man musicians can produce outstanding music (as stated by Dean this has been the norm for centuries) but reflecting on the potential effects if this direction confirms itself as a trend within the prog music world. |
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 08:53 |
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In general, I definitely prefer the "chemistry" that a band provides, not to mention a range of different personalities that gives the band some extra depth. But one-man projects also give you that very private, personal feel that bands usually cannot. I don't think either way has more creative potential than the other, but rather they provide two different types of band settings I enjoy.
Edited by HolyMoly - December 22 2012 at 08:55 |
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 10:11 |
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Fantastic topic. I jam whole band arrangements with myself all the time. They're not pre-recordings (except for the occasional tape loop). I do them in real time. I do this with extensive use of effects pedals and splitting of signals. Even when pre-programming my drum machine, the SR-18 gives me maximum control in switching between patterns with a footswitch. Everyone always talks about what the power of a technology does on the recording, composing and editing side of things, but what people can do now with effects vs. the 1980s when I started playing guitar is out of sight.
True it's still only one brain, but it has gotten to where a soloist can react to something they hadn't predicted and literally "discover" a whole composition on their own in real time. I think this is a nice recipe for the future. Yes, having multiple brains involved in a project can contribute to the creativity of the output. However, we know Prog history is plagued by band break ups too. I think a huge number of us are introverts anyway. Edited by HackettFan - December 22 2012 at 10:40 |
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 11:44 |
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Given the possibilities of modern technology and the ever increasing number of bands about, should it really be a surprise that the number of one-man bands are increasing as well? No offence, but this does sound like scare-mongering for a worst case scenario that will never happen. There will always be bands, there will always be one man artists. |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 11:57 |
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Just to clarify things further, what I described above is just normal business in band playing, most of the times it will not result in anything magical. But every once in a while the different musicians will get in a rare state when what they play seems to just fall all into the right place with eachother, a rare state of chemistry where you get transported beyond what you can normally play, where you seem to be able to play better than what you rationally ever thought you could, just because what the other guys are playing gives you an extra dose of inspiration. And when what the different guys get to play comes together nicely, then you have one of these magical moments. In our case I experienced this in very rare occasions because we were not talented musicians but I can imagine that in case of talented musicians this is much more likely to happen. In the very few cases when I have experienced this feeling, what was sounding was something I don't think I would have ever been able to put together myself alone.
Edited by Gerinski - December 22 2012 at 12:19 |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 12:07 |
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Team sportsmen (say for example soccer players) frequently say that when they play with very good teammates they play better themselves, they feedback each other. If Messi would play a game with amateur teammates it is likely that he would not be able to shine as he does in FC Barcelona. The same with doubles tennis or any other team sport, having a talent next to you pushes your own boundaries.
What I'm referring to is similar, good musicians surrounded by good musicians may be able to come up with stuff which none of them would have been able to individually. Not necessarily meaning better or worse but different, richer in some sense.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 12:44 |
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That wasn't what I described - I've never worked remotely, the guest musician and I have always been in the same place at the same time. I need that personal interaction if I am working with another person - if they do something I don't like then I will tell them, if I do something they don't like I need to be told.
By saying you were referring to the magic moments of inspirational feed back when you are comparing how one-man bands work with how group bands work then you have to take the one-man band methods of working and developing ideas into consideration otherwise you are simply presenting a biased view with no chance for anyone to disagree with you.
All compositions work like this don't they? Whether that's one man or a whole ensemble that's how ideas develop, nothing springs forth fully formed. However, not all group compositions are the result of jamming - that in itself is a low-quality form of music IMO that lacks structure and purpose - fine for psyche freakouts but it's not really a composition, the main composition in any track is more often the result of one or two people in the band creating a basic song that the rest of the band adds flesh to.
You are implying that band compositions are the result of better inspiration than solo compositions and I cannot agree with that.
Of course they can't, but how often does that truely happen in a band and how can you really tell one from the other - Is anything Mike Oldfield creates different from say Steve Hackett or Roger Waters or Vangelis or Steven Wilson.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 12:51 |
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Like many I think, I appreciate both. I love plenty of one-man projects and obviously, love many band projects. I do think it is interesting that one can detect the collaborative touch (or lack thereof) when listening. On the flip side singular vision can be enthralling in its own way.
No winners or losers here, it's all good when the talent is there. |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 13:09 |
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Then you badly misunderstood me or neglected to read me. I think I made it clear that IMO one-man compositions / performances can be as great as any band effort and that they have my full respect. And sure enough I love Oldfield's work and many more. I just put forward the question whether people share with me the perception that there is an increasing trend in modern prog to have an increasing share of one-man music releases, and if they do, how should we interpret it and extrapolate it towards the future if this trend continues. I clearly said a couple of times that band compositions are not necessarily better, just different and richer in some sense, and I just wonder if such a trend can eventually diminish the share of band compositions and one-band projects may become the dominant way of making music.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 13:14 |
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I read you just fine thanks.
I said "better inspiration" not "better composition", because that was the direction of your argument.
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Abundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog
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Tom Ozric wrote: