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erik neuteboom View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should ProgArchives turn into ProgMusicAr
    Posted: June 21 2007 at 13:58
 
                                           Hello fellow progheads.
 
I just read the discussions about the The Who addition. In my opinion there is nothing to discuss because we should add every interesting rock band with progressive ideas, from The Who and The Jimi Hendrix Experience to The Tubes and The Stranglers. OK, this sounds quite cynically but it's based upon the changing of direction I notice since I started to work for Prog Archives early 2004. When you enter the site you will read (excerpt):
 
ABOUT PROG ARCHIVES

The Prog Archives Web site Project came out from a common dream of a small group of fanatic progressive rock music collectors who decided to develop a WEB SITE for the online progressive rock music community, with the goal of "providing extensive Progressive Rock Music information", as well as interaction features for the prog surfers.
HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE WEB SITE.

ProgLucky (Rony) and M@X
 
Well, in my opinion the focus is no longer on "providing extensive Progressive Rock Music information" but also on progressive pop, prog-related, hardrock and the element rock is not really present in prog folk and progressive electronic music. Why many bands with mainly a folky or electronic sound but no rock in their music have been added to Prog Archives while there is so much opposition against bands like The Who and The Jimi Hendrix Experience or on a smaller level The Tubes and The Stranglers, all rock bands with very interesting progressive ideas/elements? 
My conclusion: in fact ProgLucky and Max should change the name Prog Archives into Prog Music Archives and mention that this site not only focus on Prog Rock, what are your thoughts about this?


Edited by erik neuteboom - June 21 2007 at 14:03
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andu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:12
1. NO. I shall later get back on this.

2. Wrong section. The proper section for this thread is "Help us improve the site".

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:15
Well, after reading a bit of the Dredg thread, I had an idea.
 
Someone (i'm sorry, I don't remember who said it...) said that Dredg definitely had some progressive ideas, but isn't really a prog band. However, they should be in the archives becuase they are a band that fans of prog are undoubtably interested in them and enjoy them.
 
So I think if we keep it ProgArchive, but add a section for interesting bands with progressive ideas like Dredg and The Who and others we will benefit from it.
 
If we change the directiong from archiving a definitive list and information of Progressive bands, to a site collecting information of bands that the progressive community enjoys to spread the word about bands, I think that it will give us a site that we all want.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:27
That's actually a really good idea, BePink. I don't see why people get steamed when bands are added into the "prog related" section, because no one is saying that they are prog, only that they have some progressive elements, which is hard to deny with most of the bands included there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:30
I think the art rock, proto-prog, and prog related categories are open-ended enough for bands like Jimi Hendrix and The Who to be included in, no need to make any big changes
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:31
I'd like to see more modern progressive music on the non or quasi rock side here -- as long as as the place is well organised with more categories.

Rather like the Art Rock category, I'm not keen on the Prog Related category because it's too eclectic in terms of diversity of bands' styles.  Nebulous... Multi-tagging would help.

It would be ridiculous to change the domain name of this site at this stage, but I do think this could be ProgArchives.com Your ultimate modern progressive music resource.  Sure Prog is short for Progressive Rock rather than just progressive, but if this site had confined itself to classically defined Progressive Rock artists, I would have missed out on so much good music.  I don't mind a revisionist approach.

As long as the categories are quite clear, I could see much more music of a progressive nature being included here.  An important aspect of Prog is the fusion of styles element, so of course many bands/ composers could fit into various categories.  We could look for more commonalities structurally (and in terms of influences/ attitude etc.) to broaden this site's parameters even more.  I like the idea of more music related to the music in the categories here...

As long as it's labeled clearly, I see no problem with the venture.  Perhaps, along with more sections, coming out with more forums would help too so that we don't feel the site is becoming too diluted and convoluted.

I think there may be a place here for people such as Michael Nyman and Philip Glass (a minimalist section perhaps, or whatever).  I'd even like to see artists such as Peter Raben and, say, Shigeru Umebayashi here. Hmmm.

And I'd like to see more progressive jazz and funk artists here, but...  I do wish Miles Davis was here.

If it's modern, experimental and adventurous, then I think  a case can be be made for a band or composer.

It moved away from just rock quite a long time ago, and I for one appreciate that since non rock music may still appeal to my progressive mindset (the progressive part of Prog is more important than the rock part for me).


Edited by Logan - June 21 2007 at 14:37
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The Miracle View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:33
It did a long time ago when prog electronic, kraut and avant categories were added, since many artists there aren't remotedly rock


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:37
I say that the more big changse that get made to the site, the more unhappy members. Why not just leave it as it is, with the existing name and criteria for addition? This was born as a strictly progressive rock database, and bands that aren't full progressive rock shouldn't be added in the first place, therefore we shouldn't maipulate the site's name or genre categories to fit them in.
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darkmatter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:44
Originally posted by BePinkTheater BePinkTheater wrote:

Well, after reading a bit of the Dredg thread, I had an idea.
 
Someone (i'm sorry, I don't remember who said it...) said that Dredg definitely had some progressive ideas, but isn't really a prog band. However, they should be in the archives becuase they are a band that fans of prog are undoubtably interested in them and enjoy them.
 
So I think if we keep it ProgArchive, but add a section for interesting bands with progressive ideas like Dredg and The Who and others we will benefit from it.
 
If we change the directiong from archiving a definitive list and information of Progressive bands, to a site collecting information of bands that the progressive community enjoys to spread the word about bands, I think that it will give us a site that we all want.


If many "interesting bands with progressive ideas" were added to this site, it would become too diluted by bands that aren't truly prog rock.  It sounds like what you're talking about are the proto-prog and prog-related categories.  While it helps to have those two categories, they are not the priority of the site in which to add bands.  The priority is to add progressive rock bands, not bands with progressive tendencies that aren't prog rock. 

And if the site was changed to a collection of information of "bands that the progressive community enjoys", I think that would defeat the purpose of this being a progressive rock website, since progressive rock fans enjoy music that is not just prog.  Then it would just be a music website. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:54
Yea I would also love to see expansion in the site.
 
Maybe a "Also Loved by Prog Fans" section of some sort.... Something that could include Miles Davis, The Who, System of a Down, Bjork, Aphex Twin, Hendrix or whatever you guys also like.
 
"A section including bands with progressive ideas that are appreciated by fans of Prog Rock, but aren't necessarily progressive in their entire catalouge."    ...something like that.
 
Porcupine Tree would fit nicely.Tongue
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 14:55
They should probably just change it to "Music Archives". Eventually it will get there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:12
And why not much more bands / artists, like The Who and Jimi Hendrix, in "prog related"? I think we will always disagree about which bands should be added and which not. I think "prog related" is a good section for a big, big number of bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:12
Originally posted by explodingjosh explodingjosh wrote:

Yea I would also love to see expansion in the site.
 
Maybe a "Also Loved by Prog Fans" section of some sort.... Something that could include Miles Davis, The Who, System of a Down, Bjork, Aphex Twin, Hendrix or whatever you guys also like.
 
"A section including bands with progressive ideas that are appreciated by fans of Prog Rock, but aren't necessarily progressive in their entire catalouge."    ...something like that.
 
Porcupine Tree would fit nicely.Tongue
 
 


Adding bands "also loved by prog fans" would dilute this website too much with bands that aren't truly prog rock bands.  I'm sure there are countless bands out there that people here like that aren't prog rock.  This site shouldn't become "Music Archives". 

I think this website should stay the way it is, for the most part. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:14
^Cmidkiff, agreed, The site already has strayed quite far from what was meant by progressive music in the 70's. If the name was changed to Music Archives we wouldn't have tedious discussions about adding bands like Iron Maiden and Split Enz.Moreover excellent bands like the Kinks and Creedence Clearwater Revival could be added without  there being endless discussions about there being prog or not.


Edited by Dirk - June 21 2007 at 15:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:15
I completely agree with Logan... as long as the sections are clearly labeled as "not necessarily prog", I have no problem with it as a prog fan.
 
Because my friends have even seen me look up Zeppelin's discography by using ProgArchives, and before one of them even finished asking "Wait, what?? Zeppelin is prog?", he saw that Zep was in the Prog Related section and everything made sense again.
 
I think it would say something about the prog fan. I think that such expansion would reflect the idea that prog fans don't just listen to prog. I'd feel that it would be a sort of "pat on the back" for us, to show that we can be conossieurs of music in general.
 
It all comes back to just how conservative we should be about the site...but it is ProgArchives.com, not ProgRockArchives.com, so....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:17
I think it is fine as it is.
 
If it were more loosely defined we wouldn't have all these lively and informative debates on who to add (or not). And by not blindly following the If X then Y arguments then Y has to be justified on it's own merits, which is healthy and right.
 
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What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:18
darkmatter is right, if we just start adding bands that have no ties to progressive rock other than the fact that one random prog fans likes them, this will fast become just a "Music Archive", and that wasn't the aim of this website.
 
I see you mentioned System of a Down in your description, explodingjosh, and those are the types of bands that have absolutely no types of ties to the progressive rock genre, as vast as it is.
 
This debate seems kind of pointles to me, I mean what is so hard about just adding prog bands to a prog website?Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:19
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

And why not much more bands / artists, like The Who and Jimi Hendrix, in "prog related"? I think we will always disagree about which bands should be added and which not. I think "prog related" is a good section for a big, big number of bands.
 
Hey I'm fine with that too. Just make the "Prog Related" section more open.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:22
one way to sort this out would be to create a sister site called "Rock Archives", and if it was successful we could create a site called "Jazz Archives", then one called "Blues Archives" , then "Classic Archives"....then......Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 15:24
Originally posted by Zappa88 Zappa88 wrote:

darkmatter is right, if we just start adding bands that have no ties to progressive rock other than the fact that one random prog fans likes them, this will fast become just a "Music Archive", and that wasn't the aim of this website.
 
I see you mentioned System of a Down in your description, explodingjosh, and those are the types of bands that have absolutely no types of ties to the progressive rock genre, as vast as it is.
 
This debate seems kind of pointles to me, I mean what is so hard about just adding prog bands to a prog website?Confused
 
Yea I seriously debated mentioning SystemOAD.LOL Maybe I'm just a fanboy. Or maybe I'm right.ShockedLOL
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