Punk v Prog: Ambiguities

In Britain, punk rock in the mid 70's was said to have hammered a number of nails into the coffin of progressive rock. (Worse it generated writers who subsequently  dominated the media for over 20 years, to spout what music was politically correct and what wasn't). A recent documentary on BBC 4 on the Clash, found one of their musicians stating: "My older brother kept playing Yes albums to me, but I couldn't see what that ******* music had to do with me". I'll agree  in some respects the music world was long due for a change in the mid 70's - as it is at the moment. These sorts of stories engendering the idea that punk hated prog (but what is too often forgotten, they also hated Led Zep, Rod Stewart and Cliff Richard).

Now I'm forever being amused when I hear stories about punk and progressive rock collaborating - what I call 'ambiguities'. Two to relate

1. Check out the album Stranglers & Friends: "Live In Concert". (Remember the Stranglers were originally an aggressive punk band). In 1981 leader Hugh Cornwall  got put away for drug offences for a short spell and this is the recording of a concert held in his support. Amongst a huge cast of musicians you'll find Robert Fripp on three tracks (who doesn't compromise to the advantage of the music - but alas his wife Toyah also sings elsewhere), Steve Hillage and Peter Hammill (who can sound a very punky vocalist).

2. That knowledge base of Krautrock and owner of Leicester's Ultima Thule shop, Alan Freeman, told me the former Sex Pistol Johnnie "Rotten" Lyden was a great Can fan and when the lead singer of Can left, he applied for the vacant position???!!! Freeman suggests (Lyden next band) PIL's album "Flowers Of Romance" is their Can album. Personally I prefer PIL's album, variously called "CD", "Cassette" or "Vinyl" depending on the format you wanted. Here enfant terrible Bill Laswell was allowed to produce, and ended with a punk, shread rock, gamelin hydrid - with Steve Vai, Ginger Baker and perhaps even Tony Williams on board.  Lyden has disowned this album. (In passing I'm sure I've read Lyden was a Van Der Graaf Generator fan too, but can't find that source?)

Any other stories?

One of Lydon's favourite songs is "The Institute of Mental Health, Burning", from Nadir's big chance - you can hear the inspiration that Hammill had on Lydon - especially the PIL stuff. The Sex Pistols were, of course, just a art school band with an image manufactured by the wayward genius that is/was Malcolm McClaren.

That image was really cunning - pretend to be ordinary kids from council estates that couldn't play, tell everyone that what you're selling them is s***, that they're being ripped off, and swear and spit at them, and you have a magic shock-value formula that's good for at least 3 years of milking. Genius! - and very progressive thinking!

Steve Jones, Paul Cook and Glenn Matlock were fairly talented players, as rock bands go - as were the Damned, arguably the first punk band, as Damned, Damned, Damned predated Never Mind the B****** by quite a long time. Another milestone was the Vibrators first album, and, naturally, the Ramones predated the lot! And how talented were the Ramones?

The Damned did an awesome cover of "Alone Again Or" - the old Love track. Get "Light at the End of the Tunnel" - it's a really great Damned compilation that'll open your eyes to what a great band they were, that played an enormous range of styles.

Yes the irony of the punk/prog crossover is not lost!

(pours another scotch...)

I'm not sure whether Lydon was a Van Der Graaf Generator fan but I know he was a Van Halen fan!

I remember the Damned doing 'Alone Again Or'.I even bought the album it came from.You gotta love a band with a drummer called Rat Scabies! BTW The video they did for it was nice homage to spaghetti westerns such as 'A Fistful Of Dollars' if I remember correctly. 

On the subject of Prog and Punk ,the drummer in The Police- Stewart Copeland was earlier in the band Curved Air (and married their lead singer Sonja Kristina).They had to keep this quiet as The Police were 'new wave' and didn't want any prog connections harming their 'punk cred'!

The puzzling thing about punk is that it for so long has been hailed as the most glorious moment in music history. In the latest Q, Sex Pistol is listed as the most influentioal band ever, with Beatles as #2.

Which proves that the editor is born in 1964, and has risen to his position through a track record of political correctness

Be that as it may, yesterday I saw one program in (I think) that recent BBC series on popular music. In the program on the 80's Trevor Horn was interviewed several times, and he and Downes shown in "Video killed the Radio Star" (Downes in typical Emo position), without Yes or Asia even mentioned.

While I imagine previous programs slammed prog (as it is the only musical form consistently mind numbing terrible beyond measure, ELP even had THREE trailers and a PERSIAN rug!! Shiver.), this program didn't even condescend to mention prog as an inspiration for some of the most successfull people and producers in the 80's. 

I don't care really. Time will prove (or has proven) that most progbands are timeless. Most punk is outdated and completely 'of it's time', lyrically and musically and also in terms of attitude.

Just a clarifaction - it was Sex Pistols that #1, not punk in general.  So SP is more influential than Beatles, well, well.

To me the point with punk is the law of "new revolutions" or "new blood" which any stale scene needs, even if there is rarerly nothing really new about it.

Or as Chesteron puts it, " If you leave a white post alone it will soon be a black post. If you particularly want it to be white you must be always painting it again; that is, you must be always having a revolution. Briefly, if you want the old white post you must have a new white post".

Punk did not "kill prog", it killed itself as the old bands were getting somewhat mainstream and burned out.

So prog punk is not only possible, it is necessary 

 Check out the Damned's GREAT track "Under the Floor Again." Fab song, and prog fan-friendly! Am I the only one who knows this very cool tune?

(I've mentioned it before -- no response.)

Certif1ed wrote: Peter Rideout I don't know that Damned track (sic ) - which album is it on? I was getting into "The History of the World part I" last night - another prog friendly track!

 "Under the Floor Again" appears on Strawberries, one of the latter-day, more musically-diverse Damned albums. A really good song -- lyrically depressing, but musically uplifting. Infectious beat, and great majestic, soaring guitar at end!

Certif1ed wrote: Oh No - here I go off to eBay again...

 I repeat: This site helps sell CDs!