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tuxon 
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 Posted: February 01 2005 at 16:54 |
Last Man On Earth is a great song 14:40 of sheer bliss, one of my all time favourite songs within the genre 
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 01 2005 at 20:24 |
OK lets accept (only for effects of this example) that Radiohead is prog, even when at least 50% of the people here don't believe it.
Then lets include The Who, I'm sure more people would accept that Tommy and Quadrophenia are Progressive albums, and this will be two albums, the double that Radiohead has.
But again, this thread is a waste of time, they are already in we will have to accept it as Radiohead fans will have to accept the reviews about their beloved band is receiving, I haven't even visited the page but according to what is said in this forum, the reviews are terrible.
Iván
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aqualung28
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Posted: February 01 2005 at 20:25 |
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good point Ivan, but to be more blunt about it: EVERYBODY, SHUT THE F**K UP!!!!!!
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 02:51 |
 ivan_2068 wrote:
OK lets accept (only for effects of this example) that Radiohead is prog, even when at least 50% of the people here don't believe it.
I don't believe that Rush are prog - although I'd never deny them a place amongst prog bands because it is quite clear that Rush are practically peerless. Progressive, yes, rock/metal yes - but not really prog. But who cares? They're a great progressive band and belong here.
Same goes for Radiohead. They are so far above the "Britpop" or "Indie" category that some people seem to lump them in, that they are peerless too in many ways. For instance, when I think of "Indie" or "Britpop", I think of Oasis, Blur, Kula Shaker, the Seahorses, Franz Ferdinand, The Strokes, The Libertines and such like - none of whom are prog, and none of whom sound anything like Radiohead, or come close to the radical experimentation that Radiohead did.
Besides, to exculde OK Computer would be to admit that Barclay James Harvest aren't prog - try playing "spot the difference". The differences I see are that Radiohead are more inventive and original in their chord structures, forms, arrangements, textures and lyrics. Tracks like "Lucky" and "Climbing up the Walls" are not "Britpop" - they are classic symphonic prog that go beyond Barclay James Harvest's "Poor Man's Moody Blues".
Then lets include The Who, I'm sure more people would accept that Tommy and Quadrophenia are Progressive albums, and this will be two albums, the double that Radiohead has.
They are progressive albums, but there's no actual prog on either. Besides, the Who didn't go into the whole experimentation thing that is apparent on Kid A and Amnesiac (Radiohead have 3 clear prog albums, not 2 somewhat progressive ones!).
But again, this thread is a waste of time, they are already in we will have to accept it as Radiohead fans will have to accept the reviews about their beloved band is receiving, I haven't even visited the page but according to what is said in this forum, the reviews are terrible.
There are plenty of good reviews too - you should take a read of them sometime. The terrible reviews on the whole are the negative ones, which tend to be single paragraphs criticising the site's decision to include Radiohead in the archives, or slating Radiohead rather than objectively criticising the music. Discussing the music is what this site is about - and negative opinions sit alongside positive ones. Discussing the site or the band in general - or even forum members has no place in the reviews, IMO.
To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation.
To exclude OK Computer or Kid A from your listening experience is to miss out on some utterly fantastic music, IMO.
Iván |
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terramystic
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Joined: February 02 2005
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 08:02 |
I voted: NO! But I have some scruples about this band. They hate to be called progressive rock (read the interviews). Thus they're not a real prog band. But even if they hate prog they have some progressive sensibility. I think it's OK to include such a marginal band in progarchives but I can't understand people who claim Radiohead albums to be prog masterpieces! 
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Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
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Points: 374
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 08:47 |
| To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation. |
Cert; That was extremely offensive ! ! ! Not to me because I really dont give a flying f**k about RH anyway. But its an offence to some of the bright and very intelligent members that post here and just because you "fell" for a pop band, you "part tout" want that half of the members here to really believe that a band without any serious progressive rock elements whatsoever to be admitted as "pedigree" progressive rock". You float between your personal highly emotional effort's, and huge technical explanations, to make somebody believe that you are right. There is a huge amount of energy from your part in order to make people actually listen to RH much more than they should and thats by far the right path. I'm at a point where if I wish to listen to RH I just turn the TV on and tune in on MTV, that easy it is. Putting out a fire with gasoline is a pretty bad idea.! On the whole 50% of those that posted on the Radiohead issue lack intelligence. If you are generalizing, you'll get a lot of generalisation thrown back at you, I hope for you that you can handle it. You got pissed off at Marcelo's review and now you hide behind a "sweept generalisation"...to get back at those who backed up Marcelo's review.
I once had a huge discussion with Pixel Pirate on the subject of "Mask, Beaubourg and Soil Festivities", three albums of Vangelis that I dislike because the sound is freaky..to me. It just went on and on and to the day of today I dislike the albums. Klaus Shulze has a huge discography but man...I can only deal with 20% of it.
Its no secret that I'm a Tangerine Dream fan above all other known bands listed here at the board, but you wont se me going after those that did develop a true hate towards TD and post negative comments on the work's of TD. The mission is to cast some light on TD's music, if somebody catches on and returns a greateful comment on this or that album...ok, but if bad coments comes back to me on a recomendation, I normally leave it like it is.
Cert; I have no Love/Hate issues with RH and my opinion still goes; Indie BritPop with a few tune in a progressive rock direction. RH lacks personality and talent and on the whole, the project is boring and uninteresting....
__________
Lunar  
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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 16:40 |
Lunarscape wrote:
| To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation. |
Cert; That was extremely offensive ! ! !
It wasn't meant to be - and I said so.
Not to me because I really dont give a flying f**k about RH anyway.
So what's your problem?
But its an offence to some of the bright and very intelligent members that post here
Er... no - I said that I was not aiming the comment at them. So it isn't.
and just because you "fell" for a pop band, you "part tout" want that half of the members here to really believe that a band without any serious progressive rock elements whatsoever to be admitted as "pedigree" progressive rock".
I didn't fall for a pop band, as you put it, I recognised a prog band with plenty of serious progressive elements - I even pointed just a few of them out in my lengthy review! I have my opinion and I'm entitled to it - and so is anyone else. If everyone shared my opinion, there'd be no-one for me to smack down, now would there?
You float between your personal highly emotional effort's, and huge technical explanations, to make somebody believe that you are right.
Yeees - that is the point of debate and discussion - now say something relevant...
There is a huge amount of energy from your part in order to make people actually listen to RH much more than they should and thats by far the right path.
Oh come on! I just say what I think - and I have a huge amount of energy PERIOD. I love music - that's why I'm on a music site...
What is this "make people listen to RH more than they should" stuff? There's no such thing!
I'm at a point where if I wish to listen to RH I just turn the TV on and tune in on MTV, that easy it is.
Great! What does that prove apart from how easy it is to listen to their SINGLES?
Putting out a fire with gasoline is a pretty bad idea.!
Got to hand it to you, Mr Holmes...
On the whole 50% of those that posted on the Radiohead issue lack intelligence.
Too true.
If you are generalizing, you'll get a lot of generalisation thrown back at you, I hope for you that you can handle it.
I can be ugly when I try...
You got pissed off at Marcelo's review and now you hide behind a "sweept generalisation"...to get back at those who backed up Marcelo's review.
No - you miss the point entirely, you do not understand the full situation, and I am not hiding. I made one sweeping generalisation - so what? Everyone does that all the time.
Lunarscape wrote:
...a band without any serious progressive rock elements whatsoever to be admitted as "pedigree" progressive rock".
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What's that if not a sweeping generalisation?
I once had a huge discussion with Pixel Pirate on the subject of "Mask, Beaubourg and Soil Festivities", three albums of Vangelis that I dislike because the sound is freaky..to me. It just went on and on and to the day of today I dislike the albums. Klaus Shulze has a huge discography but man...I can only deal with 20% of it.
Its no secret that I'm a Tangerine Dream fan above all other known bands listed here at the board, but you wont se me going after those that did develop a true hate towards TD and post negative comments on the work's of TD. The mission is to cast some light on TD's music, if somebody catches on and returns a greateful comment on this or that album...ok, but if bad coments comes back to me on a recomendation, I normally leave it like it is.
You never get angry about anything? You never "lose it" for no good reason (or possibly a collection of circumstantial reasons that circumspectively make you realise a few home truths)?
Cert; I have no Love/Hate issues with RH and my opinion still goes; Indie BritPop with a few tune in a progressive rock direction.
Sweeping generalisation time again - name one other Indie Britpop band that are as progressive as Radiohead, and one Indie Britpop album that is even half as progressive as OK Computer - not forgetting to explain why.
RH lacks personality
Sweeping generalisation... and untrue.
and talent
Cobblers, man!!! You speak through your trouser trumpet! Those two statements are offensive to Radiohead fans, Mr Double-Standards!
and on the whole, the project is boring and uninteresting....
The project? What project?
__________
Lunar
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Cert.
Edited by Certif1ed
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Syzygy
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 16:42 |
Guys, guys - sex is a wonderful thing.
Try to have some soon.
Preferably with another person.
Please....
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 16:47 |
Just discussin' the music - nothing to get alarmed about... 
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frosty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2005
Location: Scotland
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Points: 120
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 17:15 |
I can't believe we're still debating this.
Is this healthy?
Aren't there more important things to discuss?
We've ripped the backside out of this topic let's move on.
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 17:31 |
frosty wrote:
I can't believe we're still debating this.
Is this healthy?
Aren't there more important things to discuss?
We've ripped the backside out of this topic let's move on.
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says you......
This is a music discussion forum.
Anyway you should be thankful that "The Reviewer Who Wishes Not To Be Named" was so kind to Luna. I have never seen Luna write so much rubbish in all the time I have been on these forums. Normally reasoned and even-handed, he's suddenly thrown that all down the pan with a right dog's mess of an argument.Generalisation after generalisation. "TRWWNTBN" or Stacie as we now know him round here( ) is not the brightest button in the tin and even he could pick holes in the flimsy nonesense purporting to be reasoned argument.And a veiled threat from Luna too.!It Certainly must have felt like being savaged by a sheep!
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Lunarscape
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Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 18:25 |
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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 02 2005 at 22:21 |
Yestarday I visited the Radiohead page for the first time and this is part of what I found:
Certified said:
| There are plenty of good reviews too - you should take a read of them sometime. The terrible reviews on the whole are the negative ones, which tend to be single paragraphs criticising the site's decision to include Radiohead in the archives, or slating Radiohead rather than objectively criticising the music. |
RADIOHEAD Ok Computer
Review by Sead S. Fetahagic @ 11:10:53 AM EST, 1/28/2005
 — I don't see a reason for this great controversy about RADIOHEAD being prog or not! If you are to understand this genre in a broader terms they surely deserve a place in it. If not, and I am quite conservative in this sense, then 90 % of so-called neoprog, art-rock and prog metal would never appear in the progarchives! So this genre issue is always debatable and cannot be taken as an argument for giving merits. What is important is quality, ideas and emotions in music and for me "OK Computer" has all of that. This is a masterpiece of contemporary music!
Certified said:
| To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation. |
RADIOHEAD Ok Computer
Review by seabre @ 2:44:52 PM EST, 1/30/2005 — I would have to disagree with pretty much everyone that says that Radiohead isn't progressive rock. Why? pro·gres·sive adj. 1. Moving forward; advancing. Radiohead certainly sounds different from any average pop/alt band I've heard, and I don't know about you, but Radiohead certainly does show progression in their music more so than bands like Styx...which are on the site... If you listen to Kid A or Amnesiac, you should definitely consider Radiohead as a progressive rock band. I haven't heard that much experimentation since Bitches Brew. Hell, why isn't Miles Davis' entire electric era, and why isn't weather report on this site?!?!?! Weather report is definitely progressive and innovative.. Even to this day there are bands that don't really sound like them at all. Coldplay and other modern britpop bands TRY to sound like Radiohead but do nothing experimental whatsoever.. So...even if you think that Radiohead isn't progressive..why are you giving the album 0 stars? It's a good album.
This intelligent reviews that don't say a single wotrd about the album OK Computer relieve me of any comments.
By the way Cert, your comment was offensive, especially when 50% or more of the members don't agree with Radiohead, if most peopkle who are against Radiohead are small minded, then at least 45%of the members of this forum are receiving this qualification.
By the way those who don't agree Radiohead being prog' are not the minority Cert.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 00:41 |
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Radiohead only goes against mainstream music of today, because mainstream music of today has no substance. Radiohead apparently thinks substance makes up for their lack of talent. I still can't stand them
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Aaron
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 00:59 |
maybe the problem is that most Radiohead fans, arent fans of prog rock, they probably know nothing of the genre, sure sure, they know who pink floyd is, everyone does
you know, i dont really know if this band is prog or not, what i have heard i didnt like, i usually like prog, i find something rewarding in it, i probably don't know enough of the band to have voted to kick them off the site, oh well
i feel like prog is defined like so
progressive rock is progressive rock and bands that progressive rock fans like
and can anyone please explain to me why early Black Sabbath isnt a prog rock band, compared to some bands listed, why the hell not
Aaron
Edited by Aaron
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 03:15 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Yestarday I visited the Radiohead page for the first time and this is part of what I found:
Certified said:
| There are plenty of good reviews too - you should take a read of them sometime. The terrible reviews on the whole are the negative ones, which tend to be single paragraphs criticising the site's decision to include Radiohead in the archives, or slating Radiohead rather than objectively criticising the music. |
RADIOHEAD Ok Computer
Review by Sead S. Fetahagic @ 11:10:53 AM EST, 1/28/2005
— I don't see a reason for this great controversy about RADIOHEAD being prog or not! If you are to understand this genre in a broader terms they surely deserve a place in it. If not, and I am quite conservative in this sense, then 90 % of so-called neoprog, art-rock and prog metal would never appear in the progarchives! So this genre issue is always debatable and cannot be taken as an argument for giving merits. What is important is quality, ideas and emotions in music and for me "OK Computer" has all of that. This is a masterpiece of contemporary music!
The reviewer is clearly stating their opinion about OK Computer, even if they do stray into site policy commentary. I'm not happy with any reviewer doing the latter - but this is not typical, Ivan - you're overdoing the point.
Certified said:
| To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation. |
RADIOHEAD Ok Computer
Review by seabre @ 2:44:52 PM EST, 1/30/2005 — I would have to disagree with pretty much everyone that says that Radiohead isn't progressive rock. Why? pro·gres·sive adj. 1. Moving forward; advancing. Radiohead certainly sounds different from any average pop/alt band I've heard, and I don't know about you, but Radiohead certainly does show progression in their music more so than bands like Styx...which are on the site... If you listen to Kid A or Amnesiac, you should definitely consider Radiohead as a progressive rock band. I haven't heard that much experimentation since Bitches Brew. Hell, why isn't Miles Davis' entire electric era, and why isn't weather report on this site?!?!?! Weather report is definitely progressive and innovative.. Even to this day there are bands that don't really sound like them at all. Coldplay and other modern britpop bands TRY to sound like Radiohead but do nothing experimental whatsoever.. So...even if you think that Radiohead isn't progressive..why are you giving the album 0 stars? It's a good album.
This intelligent reviews that don't say a single wotrd about the album OK Computer relieve me of any comments.
This also is an exception to the rule - exceptions merely prove the rule, Ivan.
Another great exception is Frenchie's reviews - he thinks Radiohead are not prog, yet he heaps praise on the music and writes intelligently - which is exactly why I give kudos to the intelligent people on both sides.
By the way Cert, your comment was offensive, especially when 50% or more of the members don't agree with Radiohead, if most peopkle who are against Radiohead are small minded, then at least 45%of the members of this forum are receiving this qualification.
Which part of "no offence meant" was so hard to understand?
Read my words carefully - I do not attempt to imply that it is fact, but instead underline the fact that this is how it seems to me - my opinion. If my opinion or perception is wrong, then I stand corrected in the face of the evidence... and I see none so far.
By the way those who don't agree Radiohead being prog' are not the minority Cert.
Agreed - it seems to be a 50/50 split, but the lion's share of the idiotic reviews come from the "anti" side - and that remains an indisputable fact.
Iván |
Edited by Certif1ed
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 03:25 |
Aaron wrote:
maybe the problem is that most Radiohead fans, arent fans of prog rock, they probably know nothing of the genre, sure sure, they know who pink floyd is, everyone does
I don't think that is the problem, Aaron. It seems to me that the problem comes from prog rock fans belonging to the old school who think that only long-haired hammond-playing fretboard shredding multi-time signature noodling can be prog.
you know, i dont really know if this band is prog or not, what i have heard i didnt like, i usually like prog, i find something rewarding in it, i probably don't know enough of the band to have voted to kick them off the site, oh well
i feel like prog is defined like so
progressive rock is progressive rock and bands that progressive rock fans like
OK... I'm a fan of progressive rock, so any band I like is progressive rock - is that what you are saying? 
and can anyone please explain to me why early Black Sabbath isnt a prog rock band, compared to some bands listed, why the hell not
There's an accepted if "woolly" sentiment that Prog Rock and progressive rock are two different things.
Although Black Sabbath were progressive - heck, Rick Wakeman played for them once - their overall style was not prog rock. Compare any Sabbath album to any early Genesis album, or King Crimson album... get the idea? There are many other hard rock bands that I would half consider to be prog - not least the amazing Welsh 3-piece Budgie. Their "Bandolier" album is more prog than anything I've heard by, say, Uriah Heep, despite the absence of Keyboards.
It's also agreed that there are many bands in the Archives that do not comfortably satisfy many peoples' definitions of Prog Rock, and many bands that are ommitted which do. Why there's so much fuss about Radiohead, when OK Computer is more proggy than most Barclay James Harvest, Supertramp, Procul Harum, Moody Blues or just about any other borderline band is beyond me!
Aaron |
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nacho
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 04:27 |
Certif1ed wrote:
It's also agreed that there are many bands in the Archives that do not comfortably satisfy many peoples' definitions of Prog Rock, and many bands that are ommitted which do. Why there's so much fuss about Radiohead, when OK Computer is more proggy than most Barclay James Harvest, Supertramp, Procul Harum, Moody Blues or just about any other borderline band is beyond me!
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This is taken from Amazon.com:
Customers who bought titles by Radiohead also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Barclay James Harvest also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Supertramp also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Procol Harum also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Moody Blues also bought titles by these artists:
I think there's a difference there... I can't find any of the Radiohead-related bands (according to people who buy their records) on the Progarchives list.
Having said that, let me add that I can't really understand this discussion. What's the problem with people wanting Radiohead off this site? How is the fact that Radiohead IS here affecting you?
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Lunarscape
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Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 06:20 |
Syzygy wrote:
Guys, guys - sex is a wonderful thing.
Try to have some soon.
Preferably with another person.
Please....
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HEY DUDE, You are absolutely right, just one question; Do you mind if I do it with somebody of the opposite gender ? Its that I'm under the impression that Radiohead fans . . . . . . Ohh heck just leave it like it is....
Reed -
Gosh man...you know how to hurt ones feelings, I'm SOOOOOOOO pissed off at your post that I nearly ran away from this forum in utter rage  (Its become fashionable lately !) Is it possible for you to share your passive "SAVAGE SHEEP" experience ? How dare you tag my post as RUBBISH ! ! ! ! ????? (I have to say this too; REED I'm only joking OK ? Dont misinterpret this post and dont run away in grief and please dont MARK the hurt feelings, just because you didnt understand all the rubbish I wrote about that...you know Indie Britpop Alternative Art Rock band everybody is bitching about ! )
_________
Lunar 
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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
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Certif1ed
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Posted: February 03 2005 at 06:53 |
nacho wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
It's also agreed that there are many bands in the Archives that do not comfortably satisfy many peoples' definitions of Prog Rock, and many bands that are ommitted which do. Why there's so much fuss about Radiohead, when OK Computer is more proggy than most Barclay James Harvest, Supertramp, Procul Harum, Moody Blues or just about any other borderline band is beyond me!
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This is taken from Amazon.com:
Customers who bought titles by Radiohead also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Barclay James Harvest also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Supertramp also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Procol Harum also bought titles by these artists:
Customers who bought titles by Moody Blues also bought titles by these artists:
I think there's a difference there... I can't find any of the Radiohead-related bands (according to people who buy their records) on the Progarchives list.
Having said that, let me add that I can't really understand this discussion. What's the problem with people wanting Radiohead off this site? How is the fact that Radiohead IS here affecting you?
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How did I forget Amazon.com - the fount of all knowledge 
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Petition to take Radiohead off Progarchi
