Petition to take Radiohead off Progarchi

Musical Box wrote:

"Well Ninian.... for a band to be considered prog; a considerable amount of their work must be progressive. And if you look at Genesis' discography i think you'll find there  are many more prog releases (compilations excluded) than "pop" material. And using Genesis as a way to justify your argument that Radiohead is prog (when less than half of their material is prog, as you said) was incorrect. Which is why Zeppelin prolly shouldnt and never will be added; the fact that we love them has nothing to do with the argument."

 You've just repeeated your original point - I WASN'T arguing about ratios of prog: non-prog, and of course Genesis should be included, having produced some very fine prog albums.  My suggestion was that because Radiohead have produced at least one prog album (and possibly two), they have a right to inclusion.  There are bands included the archives who have only produced ONE album in their entire careers.  Surely the point of a resource like this is to chart the development of prog music and maintain a comprehensive inventory of it - regardless of the direction it is going.  My argument was simply that if we are going to exclude bands like Radiohead because they made some 'indie' albums, then by that logic we should also exclude bands who went on to produce pop albums (ie Genesis, Kansas, Yes, etc) / jazz / C&W / Heavy Metal.  It was a joke, aimed at those purists who seem to think 'progressive' has nothing to do with progress, and rather, has more to do with long Hammond organ solos in 7/8.

Hangedman wrote:

"Another flaw in the genesis argument was that there was a major change in the membership of the band, it was in fact a different Genesis altogether. They lost thier leading man. radiohead, although they are evolving musically they are not going through any drastic changes, so the argument doesnt hold over to well.

I listened to Kid A a few times, and am now convinced of radioheads justfication as a prog group.

as for led zepplin PLEASE NO. ill keep any other comments to myself unless someone makes a thread."

 Please see above post for Musical Box.  There wasn't an initial flaw....

 And you're quite right, Kid A cetainly, and also Amnesiac (whilst I dont really like them), are quite definitely consistent with the definitions of prog bandied about Progarchives forums - and I would hazard an opinion that they are (musically) more intelligent and conceptual than many albums that are deified on this site.  

And finally Ivan:

"I'm making this post not because of Radiohead, but because Genesis was mentioned. I'm not going to talk about the trascendence of Genesis in Prog' history but only will refer to the number of albums, not mentioning any compilation, only original productions and Live albums:"

I wouldn't expect any less from you Ivan.

Oh look-no contribution by me to this> until now.

apparently I'm the leader of the "Get Radiohead off this site campaign" yet not one single post by me until this!!!

OK, stop this, like it or not (I don't), they are here and no effort will remove them.

Iván

Amnesiac, Ok Computer and I Might Be Wrong. Full length listening more than 3 times and hopefully never listen to that again !

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Lunar 

No Way Cert...If we have to look hard into some music in order to find stains of Prog in order to call the band a Prog Rock band....I'm out. There is much more Prog in Saint Etienne's music and 100 of Chill-out projects than RH, just as an example. There are bands I really like and I can enjoy their music and still refrain from calling them Prog Bands. Era and Enigma has billions of Prog Elements, and much more evident, in their music and still most critics turn their noses away from them. Kitaro is much more Prog linked than RH and still....JMJarre....but ok forget it...If you listen to Moby's "Play" you'll find many more Prog tracks than on RH's music...

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Lunar

Certif1ed wrote: Yes way, Lunar - to use your argument then Dream Theater clearly aren't prog, as I find it hard to hear any prog in their music, as do many others. There are prog tendencies in much chill-out music, as you say, but it's not inherently prog - and neither are Enigma, depite the classical pretensions of Karl Jenkins - whose music I love. There may be elements - but that is all. The whole prog "groove" is missing, instead, the groove is one of soundscaping - which is highly inventive, but not prog. OK Computer IS a prog album, NOT a Britpop or Indie album. Even The Bends rises above the Indie/Alt-Rock crowd into the realms of prog - although that is not inherently a prog album in the way OK Computer most definitely is. The Iron Lung EP shows Radiohead's development into prog territory even more strongly, especially the tracks "The Trickster" and "Punchdrunk Lovesick Singalong". I've listened to Moby's "Play" many times. There's no prog on it.

Totally agree I have no doubt that from OK on it is prog.  If you really listen to Kid A and don't hear prog then you need to check your pulse.  The sound of the albums post OK are very remenisent of Can and they are unquestionably prog right?  There is one reason why Radiohead is more of a prog band than Dream Theater, a sense of musical adventure and not a clinical approach.  Radiohead embarces the idea of music as an artistic means of expression.  I don't hear this idea in DT, I hear a formulated attempt at prog type music.  Thanks god bands like Radiohead understand that there is no prog formula. 

BTW: I didn't vote. I didn't want them to be on the site and I think they shouldn't be on the site... but now they're here and many people reviewed the albums... so it would be a stupid thing to remove them now... if you don't like it... just ignore it (it's only Radiohead, not MARIAH CAREY or something). There is more non prog on the forums... I mean... I have downloaded a few songs by ALAN PARSONS PROJECT and decided it is TRUE CRAP (kitsch kitsch kitsch). And Radiohead is better than Marillion. Radiohead is not prog, but they are a very original band...

Marillion...

ok

I am going to stop arguing. We just disagree

You review what you like, Lunar, and don't apologise for your opinions - I never apologise for mine

I have heard much of Enigma's material - I like Karl Jenkins' music and all the projects he has been involved with - but there is no prog there. It's progressive, yes, but in the sense that it's composed. It doesn't enter a prog "groove" - one of the best examples of which is "Can-Utility and the Coastliners" on "Foxtrot".

I remember Kula Skaker well - I have their album "K", which is utterly superb - but not prog. I find it odd that many people don't hear OK Computer as a prog album, when it so blatantly is to me. It would be cool to establish why (on both sides) without it descending into a squabble.

For instance, can you really listen to "Lucky" and tell me that is not the most massive prog track you've heard since 1975? It may be short, but it's certainly not Britpop by any stretch of the imagination!

There's the challenge - in simple terms and without resorting to quarrelling, can both sides actually provide some fundamentals which support their claim - and provide a bit of understanding?

I think my review goes part way to supporting the side I come down on - I tried to explore the progginess of each track in an honest way. Can the other side provide anything as convincing?

It would be interesting.