| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
terramystic 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 776
|
 Posted: February 02 2005 at 08:02 |
I voted: NO! But I have some scruples about this band. They hate to be called progressive rock (read the interviews). Thus they're not a real prog band. But even if they hate prog they have some progressive sensibility. I think it's OK to include such a marginal band in progarchives but I can't understand people who claim Radiohead albums to be prog masterpieces! 
|
 |
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: February 02 2005 at 02:51 |
 ivan_2068 wrote:
OK lets accept (only for effects of this example) that Radiohead is prog, even when at least 50% of the people here don't believe it.
I don't believe that Rush are prog - although I'd never deny them a place amongst prog bands because it is quite clear that Rush are practically peerless. Progressive, yes, rock/metal yes - but not really prog. But who cares? They're a great progressive band and belong here.
Same goes for Radiohead. They are so far above the "Britpop" or "Indie" category that some people seem to lump them in, that they are peerless too in many ways. For instance, when I think of "Indie" or "Britpop", I think of Oasis, Blur, Kula Shaker, the Seahorses, Franz Ferdinand, The Strokes, The Libertines and such like - none of whom are prog, and none of whom sound anything like Radiohead, or come close to the radical experimentation that Radiohead did.
Besides, to exculde OK Computer would be to admit that Barclay James Harvest aren't prog - try playing "spot the difference". The differences I see are that Radiohead are more inventive and original in their chord structures, forms, arrangements, textures and lyrics. Tracks like "Lucky" and "Climbing up the Walls" are not "Britpop" - they are classic symphonic prog that go beyond Barclay James Harvest's "Poor Man's Moody Blues".
Then lets include The Who, I'm sure more people would accept that Tommy and Quadrophenia are Progressive albums, and this will be two albums, the double that Radiohead has.
They are progressive albums, but there's no actual prog on either. Besides, the Who didn't go into the whole experimentation thing that is apparent on Kid A and Amnesiac (Radiohead have 3 clear prog albums, not 2 somewhat progressive ones!).
But again, this thread is a waste of time, they are already in we will have to accept it as Radiohead fans will have to accept the reviews about their beloved band is receiving, I haven't even visited the page but according to what is said in this forum, the reviews are terrible.
There are plenty of good reviews too - you should take a read of them sometime. The terrible reviews on the whole are the negative ones, which tend to be single paragraphs criticising the site's decision to include Radiohead in the archives, or slating Radiohead rather than objectively criticising the music. Discussing the music is what this site is about - and negative opinions sit alongside positive ones. Discussing the site or the band in general - or even forum members has no place in the reviews, IMO.
To me that shows that, on the whole, it's the intelligensia that accept Radiohead as prog and the small-minded addle-pated minority that don't. No offence intended to the intelligent people that don't accept this - I'm making a sweeping generalisation.
To exclude OK Computer or Kid A from your listening experience is to miss out on some utterly fantastic music, IMO.
Iván |
|
|
aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 20:25 |
|
good point Ivan, but to be more blunt about it: EVERYBODY, SHUT THE F**K UP!!!!!!
|
|
"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 20:24 |
OK lets accept (only for effects of this example) that Radiohead is prog, even when at least 50% of the people here don't believe it.
Then lets include The Who, I'm sure more people would accept that Tommy and Quadrophenia are Progressive albums, and this will be two albums, the double that Radiohead has.
But again, this thread is a waste of time, they are already in we will have to accept it as Radiohead fans will have to accept the reviews about their beloved band is receiving, I haven't even visited the page but according to what is said in this forum, the reviews are terrible.
Iván
|
|
tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 16:54 |
Last Man On Earth is a great song 14:40 of sheer bliss, one of my all time favourite songs within the genre 
|
|
I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
|
|
Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 16:51 |
I'm not apologizing for my opinion Cert, just being polite to you since I know its a very sensitive case for you, this thing about one of your favorite bands. I dont judge an album from one song, and yes, Leviatan, Last Man on Earth of Pendragon is "massive Prog after 1975" ! If you felt hooked and seduced by RH, my sincere congratulations.
_______
Lunar 
|
|
Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 16:07 |
You review what you like, Lunar, and don't apologise for your opinions - I never apologise for mine 
I have heard much of Enigma's material - I like Karl Jenkins' music and all the projects he has been involved with - but there is no prog there. It's progressive, yes, but in the sense that it's composed. It doesn't enter a prog "groove" - one of the best examples of which is "Can-Utility and the Coastliners" on "Foxtrot".
I remember Kula Skaker well - I have their album "K", which is utterly superb - but not prog. I find it odd that many people don't hear OK Computer as a prog album, when it so blatantly is to me. It would be cool to establish why (on both sides) without it descending into a squabble.
For instance, can you really listen to "Lucky" and tell me that is not the most massive prog track you've heard since 1975? It may be short, but it's certainly not Britpop by any stretch of the imagination!
There's the challenge - in simple terms and without resorting to quarrelling, can both sides actually provide some fundamentals which support their claim - and provide a bit of understanding?
I think my review goes part way to supporting the side I come down on - I tried to explore the progginess of each track in an honest way. Can the other side provide anything as convincing?
It would be interesting. 
|
|
Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 14:35 |
Sorry Cert. I'm not wasting my precious time listening to a crappy Alternative Pop band that dont believe themselves that they could be prog just becuse somebody else believes it. Dont worry I wont review RH. Remember Kula-Shaker, they had more prog in them than what I heard of RH, KS was a far more interesting project than RH is.
My opinion on DT; A well structured heavy metal band with ups and downs, and some pretentious keyboard playing that could make them "listenable" to the trained prog-ear but under no circumstances a prog band "per si". They went to music schools and their final product is technically excellent, worth listening to.
Cert, again I see Enigma much closer to Progressive Rock than that other band. Michel Cretu has released 3 albums previous to the Enigma Project and was backed up by prog musicians. The enigma soundscape is by far closer to prog and you just doesnt have to make the effort to listen to it...its just there. The enigma project is a set of 5 recordings being the last one Voyageur the worst...cheap pop with 3-4 enigma tunes. The screen behind the mirror is a prog album. There is a 6th album called Transatlantic Air Waves but that one carries the heart and soul of Jens Gad (Kretu's partner in Enigma) with 10 covers of what they like in music.
Again, Joren is correct on all accounts ! I do share his opinion on all of them...
________
Lunar 
|
|
Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
|
|
Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 10:18 |
ok
I am going to stop arguing. We just disagree
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 09:57 |
Wrong on all 3 counts, Joren.
DSOTM is a prog album.
Marillion are a great prog band - but they were greater with Fish.
Radiohead have produced some great prog albums.
All of these are in the Prog Archives.
They are prog - just not what you think of as prog.
There is a difference
|
|
Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 09:06 |
BTW: I didn't vote. I didn't want them to be on the site and I think they shouldn't be on the site... but now they're here and many people reviewed the albums... so it would be a stupid thing to remove them now... if you don't like it... just ignore it (it's only Radiohead, not MARIAH CAREY or something). There is more non prog on the forums... I mean... I have downloaded a few songs by ALAN PARSONS PROJECT and decided it is TRUE CRAP (kitsch kitsch kitsch). And Radiohead is better than Marillion. Radiohead is not prog, but they are a very original band...
Marillion...
|
|
Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 09:01 |
Certif1ed wrote:
OK Computer IS a prog album as much as Dark Side of the Moon.
The Admins agree.
Leave it alone and shut the f**k up.
Please?
|
I don't know if DSOTM is prog (I really doubt it), but PF made many prog albums... I'm afraid Radiohead didn't
|
|
Spartacus
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 08:54 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Yes way, Lunar - to use your argument then Dream Theater clearly aren't prog, as I find it hard to hear any prog in their music, as do many others.
There are prog tendencies in much chill-out music, as you say, but it's not inherently prog - and neither are Enigma, depite the classical pretensions of Karl Jenkins - whose music I love. There may be elements - but that is all. The whole prog "groove" is missing, instead, the groove is one of soundscaping - which is highly inventive, but not prog.
OK Computer IS a prog album, NOT a Britpop or Indie album. Even The Bends rises above the Indie/Alt-Rock crowd into the realms of prog - although that is not inherently a prog album in the way OK Computer most definitely is. The Iron Lung EP shows Radiohead's development into prog territory even more strongly, especially the tracks "The Trickster" and "Punchdrunk Lovesick Singalong".
I've listened to Moby's "Play" many times. There's no prog on it.
|
Totally agree I have no doubt that from OK on it is prog. If you really listen to Kid A and don't hear prog then you need to check your pulse. The sound of the albums post OK are very remenisent of Can and they are unquestionably prog right? There is one reason why Radiohead is more of a prog band than Dream Theater, a sense of musical adventure and not a clinical approach. Radiohead embarces the idea of music as an artistic means of expression. I don't hear this idea in DT, I hear a formulated attempt at prog type music. Thanks god bands like Radiohead understand that there is no prog formula.
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 04:03 |
Yes way, Lunar - to use your argument then Dream Theater clearly aren't prog, as I find it hard to hear any prog in their music, as do many others.
There are prog tendencies in much chill-out music, as you say, but it's not inherently prog - and neither are Enigma, depite the classical pretensions of Karl Jenkins - whose music I love. There may be elements - but that is all. The whole prog "groove" is missing, instead, the groove is one of soundscaping - which is highly inventive, but not prog.
OK Computer IS a prog album, NOT a Britpop or Indie album. Even The Bends rises above the Indie/Alt-Rock crowd into the realms of prog - although that is not inherently a prog album in the way OK Computer most definitely is. The Iron Lung EP shows Radiohead's development into prog territory even more strongly, especially the tracks "The Trickster" and "Punchdrunk Lovesick Singalong".
I've listened to Moby's "Play" many times. There's no prog on it.
|
|
Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 03:33 |
No Way Cert...If we have to look hard into some music in order to find stains of Prog in order to call the band a Prog Rock band....I'm out. There is much more Prog in Saint Etienne's music and 100 of Chill-out projects than RH, just as an example. There are bands I really like and I can enjoy their music and still refrain from calling them Prog Bands. Era and Enigma has billions of Prog Elements, and much more evident, in their music and still most critics turn their noses away from them. Kitaro is much more Prog linked than RH and still....JMJarre....but ok forget it...If you listen to Moby's "Play" you'll find many more Prog tracks than on RH's music...
________
Lunar
|
|
Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: February 01 2005 at 03:05 |
Lunarscape wrote:
Amnesiac, Ok Computer and I Might Be Wrong. Full length listening more than 3 times and hopefully never listen to that again ! 
_____
Lunar
|
And you still don't hear the prog?
I feel sorry for you - there's some great prog in there.
|
|
Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
|
Posted: January 31 2005 at 21:36 |
Amnesiac, Ok Computer and I Might Be Wrong. Full length listening more than 3 times and hopefully never listen to that again !
_____
Lunar
|
|
Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
|
|
Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
|
Posted: January 31 2005 at 21:22 |
Lunarscape wrote:
Reed; The EUROCHANNEL (Latin America DIRECTV) is currently running a documentary on this Radiohead outfit and I'll tell you, my opinion on them got consolidated. Its a Brit Pop outfit, they say that ! ! ! ! So from Alternative Indie Pop - they become Alternative Indie Pop Prog and joins Progarchives. Chorus like la-la-la-la, on a 3 chord song...wow what a blast.  . There is NO WAY that RH could be compared to any Prog Dinossaurous and the Genesis example is not good since its clear that after Then There Were Three the band was so disfigured that posterious albums can be disconsidered. Its like discussing the last 3 Yes albums....worthless crap...but Radiohead simply doesnt have elements enough to join such fine company, unless, ofcourse, you open the gates and let everybody else in too; Grand Funk, Osibisa, Led Zeppelin, 10CC and so many others....
Ivan; I honestly dont belive in stopping this, Its a question of principles and not a question of personal taste. As much as I dont like King Crimson or Rush, I do recognize their value on the Prog scene. Gentle Giant is in the same package but just because I dont appreciate their albums, I cannot disconsider their contribution to Progressive music. As for the poll, nearly 50-50 is more than enough to send them back to where RH belongs....MTV pop scene !
_________
Lunar.
|
how many Radiohead albums have you listened to?
|
|
Collaborators will take your soul.
|
|
Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
|
Posted: January 31 2005 at 21:20 |
|
Won't this die already?
|
|
I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
|
|
Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
|
Posted: January 31 2005 at 21:17 |
Reed; The EUROCHANNEL (Latin America DIRECTV) is currently running a documentary on this Radiohead outfit and I'll tell you, my opinion on them got consolidated. Its a Brit Pop outfit, they say that ! ! ! ! So from Alternative Indie Pop - they become Alternative Indie Pop Prog and joins Progarchives. Chorus like la-la-la-la, on a 3 chord song...wow what a blast. . There is NO WAY that RH could be compared to any Prog Dinossaurous and the Genesis example is not good since its clear that after Then There Were Three the band was so disfigured that posterious albums can be disconsidered. Its like discussing the last 3 Yes albums....worthless crap...but Radiohead simply doesnt have elements enough to join such fine company, unless, ofcourse, you open the gates and let everybody else in too; Grand Funk, Osibisa, Led Zeppelin, 10CC and so many others....
Ivan; I honestly dont belive in stopping this, Its a question of principles and not a question of personal taste. As much as I dont like King Crimson or Rush, I do recognize their value on the Prog scene. Gentle Giant is in the same package but just because I dont appreciate their albums, I cannot disconsider their contribution to Progressive music. As for the poll, nearly 50-50 is more than enough to send them back to where RH belongs....MTV pop scene !
_________
Lunar.
|
|
Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Petition to take Radiohead off Progarchi
