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Arioch 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 169
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 Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:26 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Arioch wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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I totally agree with that  How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?
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It must be that single same unchanging beat that echoes so loudly through the speakers , that it makes your ears bleed, that makes it so progressive.
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unchanging??? I love those statements that show that they didn't even listen to the album.
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I love those statements which refer to statements, that refer to other statements, etc.....
The only change I hear is the level of ringing in my ear at their bloody loud music.
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Knight of the Swords
Lord of Entropy
Duke of Chaos
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16473
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:27 |
Publius wrote:
I'm sticking with my prog opinion. :) |
All right, then what was your point in starting this thread? Trying to convince extremely close-minded people or something? Cause In my mind, that's pretty hopeless.
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Publius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 382
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:29 |
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Heh, just wanted to know what kind of reception they got.
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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:30 |
Arioch wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Arioch wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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I totally agree with that How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?
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It must be that single same unchanging beat that echoes so loudly through the speakers , that it makes your ears bleed, that makes it so progressive.
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unchanging??? I love those statements that show that they didn't even listen to the album.
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I love those statements which refer to statements, that refer to other statements, etc.....
The only change I hear is the level of ringing in my ear at their bloody loud music.
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You sound like my mother.
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Odd24
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 199
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:31 |
King of Loss wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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I totally agree with that How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?
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Only for the odd signatures.... ..
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Right down the line
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16473
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:37 |
Odd24 wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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I totally agree with that How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?
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Only for the odd signatures.... ..
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But Odd Signatures don't make you Progressive at all.
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HeirToRuin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 454
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:38 |
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Master of Puppets is to incorporate fusion with progressive tendencies,
but it's still largely just a thrash album with an occassional odd time
signature thrown in for effect.
I will give the instrumental sections on MoP and Orion to be quite proggy, but by and large, the album is thrash metal in 4/4.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:38 |
Odd24 wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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I totally agree with that How is Metallica Progressive in anyway?
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Only for the odd signatures.... ..
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Master Of Puppets was unlike any other metal album before. It's not just the signatures. It's the way the guitars are recorded in the intro - 3-4 guitars layered on top of another to create a baroque harpsichord like sound. And the interludes, inspired by classical music, with multi voice solos arranged like violin duets normaly are. And the riffing, which is nothing special today, but was introduced on a few metal albums back then, Master Of Puppets being one of them. And the downtuning of one of the strings (The Thing That Should Not Be), which enabled them to play riffs that would normally not be possible. And of course Orion.
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:39 |
To call it one unchanging beat is absurd. I'm not keen on all that many Metallica songs - and I'll agree Lars is not a good or even vaguely subtle drummer, but compare Metallica to most of the '80s Bay Area and they sound like bloody Yes! (that's not to put any other bands down, I'm totally digging that sound at the moment). + Plenty of AJFA and most more recent stuff is not in the remotest bit loud - the intro and verses of "One", long sections of "To Live is to Die", the intro to the title track... surely the quiet bits are outweighed by the loud bits but there's more dynamic variation in "One" or "To Live is to Die" than there is in 21st Century Schizoid Man.
In essence, my view on Metallica:
A competent band who stretched thrash to new places ("progressed", if you will), with some bits I find absolutely sublime (2-3 tracks an album, roughly), lots that leave me lukewarm, and recently some completely turgid pieces of sh*t. Generally not my cup of tea, and (perhaps for that reason, but I'd like to think not) I don't feel they're at all at home on a prog site.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:41 |
HeirToRuin wrote:
Master of Puppets is to incorporate fusion with progressive tendencies, but it's still largely just a thrash album with an occassional odd time signature thrown in for effect.
I will give the instrumental sections on MoP and Orion to be quite proggy, but by and large, the album is thrash metal in 4/4.
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Let me recap ... the other guy complained about odd signatures and signature changes, and that they don't make something prog. Now you come along and say that it isn't prog, because there's not enough of them ...
BTW: 4/4 doesn't may that something is easy to play. Ask Meshuggah.
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:41 |
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+ I think The Thing That Should Not Be is bloody awful! I don't think that large a proportion of MOP is in 4/4 though, or at least not entirely, they tend to cut short bars at the end of riffs (or 4 repeats). That's done in the title track and Damage Inc., although I can't remember offhand any others.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16473
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:46 |
goose wrote:
In essence, my view on Metallica:
A competent band who stretched thrash to new places ("progressed", if you will), with some bits I find absolutely sublime (2-3 tracks an album, roughly), lots that leave me lukewarm, and recently some completely turgid pieces of sh*t. Generally not my cup of tea, and (perhaps for that reason, but I'd like to think not) I don't feel they're at all at home on a prog site.
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I agree.
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:05 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Publius wrote:
OK, a subject much dodged around, Lets go in all guns blazing...in terms of prog metal, what do y'all make of the Master Of Puppets album? I personally think, in terms of prog metal, that it is rather prog and is definitely an influence for many bands that are actually known as prog metal.
Come on, just listen to this album! I hate thrash metal but I LOVE Master Of Puppets. The song structures are inventive, listenable and very varied. They are also of a very substantial length.
Your turn! :P
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Even Dream Theater seem to recognise this, as they covered the album in it's entirity - and had real difficulties doing so.
 
It's prog metal alright. No question.
Definitely. It's the best thing Metallica have ever released and a true classic of metal in general, not only prog metal. No weak track on it. Cliff Burton was a madman on bass and Kirk Hammett delivered some really tasty solos - something he'd have increasing trouble with from "And Justice..." onwards.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:07 |
Metallica prog... hmmmm... The problem is I hate them and can't give a opinion... In what way is Master of Puppets more prog than 7th Son of a 7th Son?(I'm Still forcing THEM in here!)
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Lyzarrd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 164
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:16 |
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What it seems here is that alot, if not most metal, has this
'progressive' structure, with shifting time signatures, interludes,
among many other things. Basically, if it isn't pop metal (Motley Crue,
White Snake etc.) than its progressive.
I guess I tend to look at metal being a bit like fusion except metal
fuses classical style/structure with gritty or heavily distorted
guitars. Sounds like prog to me but I feel as if metal branched off
into its own genre all together.
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Can you tell me where my country lies...
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16473
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:18 |
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Metallica prog... hmmmm... The problem is I hate them and can't give a opinion... In what way is Master of Puppets more prog than 7th Son of a 7th Son?(I'm Still forcing THEM in here!)
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Oh C'mon Metallica isn't that bad. If you want bad, I reckon you get some St. Anger 
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:26 |
King of Loss wrote:
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
Metallica prog... hmmmm... The problem is I hate them and can't give a opinion... In what way is Master of Puppets more prog than 7th Son of a 7th Son?(I'm Still forcing THEM in here!)
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Oh C'mon Metallica isn't that bad. If you want bad, I reckon you get some St. Anger
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Muahaha I love St. Anger... It sucks soooo much. And Dance of Death is Great (also VERY progressive!!!)
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Dream Theater
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 14 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 2188
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:29 |
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog. |
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[IMG]http://www.travelwithachallenge.com/Images/Travel_Article_Library/Sacred-Travel/Machu-Picchu-350.jpg"> [IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/panchopc1/machupicchu-1.jpg">
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:31 |
Dream Theater wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Metallica=non prog.
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Dream Theater = Not flexible.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928
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Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:35 |
Money gooooood!!!! Napster baaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!
Thinking baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!!!! Beer gooooooooood!!!!!
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