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Praised prog albums that you think are overrated
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

A highly praised album that I consider to be overrated, even though I do like the album, is King Crimson - Red. Listening to the album, it seems to me to have fewer musical ideas than an album as highly praised as Red ought to have.

Bravo!  My thoughts exactly!  
Yeah, "Red" has always seemed kind of repetitious and hard rock oriented, I much prefer the more intricate "Larks Tongue" and "Starless and Bible Black".
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Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I will limit this to bands/artists I'm actually a fan of:

1. Yes: Tales from Topographic Oceans
2. Genesis: Trespass
3. Genesis: Nursery Cryme
4. Alan Parsons Project: Tales of Mystery and Imagination
5. Moody Blues: In Search of the Lost Chord
6. Rush: 2112
7. Rush: Moving Pictures
8. Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
9. E.L.P.: Tarkus
10. Pink Floyd: The Wall
11. Mike Oldfield: Tubular Bells

I don't know. Only 3 and 7 are a hyped up a bit maybe. A lot of these albums are generally considered 'flawed' masterpieces. 
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The term "overrated" is overrated.
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Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte

How is this album overrated?! Ouch
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte

How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 

I know you didn't say it.
Even if you rank it as your fifth favorite, is it overrated, is it undeserving of all the appreciation and love it gets?! Confused
 


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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 

I know you didn't say it.
Even if you rank it as your fifth favorite, is it overrated, is it undeserving of all the appreciation and love it gets?! Confused
 

Hi,

Sometimes I wonder what it is that we think/consider to be over/under anything.

I, for myself, kinda draw the line on one rather important detail that was the main reason for "progressive" to come alive, something that today is somewhat ignored, and the "favorites" end up being on top, even when their musicality is not specially important or worthy of the "progressive" classification.

I draw the line as pop music, or creative music ... and a lot of albums listed fit the pop music idea, because it is all formatted stuff and not as alive and experimental as the "creative" side has been and can be.

Thus, things like "Voyage of the Acolyte" deserves the appreciation, as does a lot of other work listed here by various folks.

Of the one list above, I think that most of it is fine, although the main problem with it, TODAY, is that a lot of folks don't look at music that is 30/40 years old as important or valid, because it is not formula oriented, or "pop" as I like to suggest. 

I do think, however, that the inclusion of 2 albums, by Rush and Genesis, causes the listing a problem ... in that the listener is not versed enough in more music, from other places in the world, in order to get off the English/British listing ... which to me is FAT and OVER RATED ... but the powers that be think that England invented the world and the Internet!


Edited by moshkito - December 03 2024 at 06:15
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 

I know you didn't say it.
Even if you rank it as your fifth favorite, is it overrated, is it undeserving of all the appreciation and love it gets?! Confused
 


No, for sure not, and I'm not a fan of the "overrated" concept anyway. However I'm fine discussing why some albums that are generally appreciated don't resonate with some people, and that's the more constructive thing that can be done in this thread. And this doesn't require a complaint any time somebody says an album is overrated that you think deserves appreciation.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 

I know you didn't say it.
Even if you rank it as your fifth favorite, is it overrated, is it undeserving of all the appreciation and love it gets?! Confused
No, for sure not, and I'm not a fan of the "overrated" concept anyway. However I'm fine discussing why some albums that are generally appreciated don't resonate with some people, and that's the more constructive thing that can be done in this thread. And this doesn't require a complaint any time somebody says an album is overrated that you think deserves appreciation.

I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised at some of the choices here in this thread. If I'm asking why, it does not mean i complain. Just trying to understand.


Edited by Cristi - December 03 2024 at 09:23
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Points: 14830 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2024 at 09:29
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte
How is this album overrated?! Ouch
Well, it wasn't me who said that and I actually like it, but... it's Hackett's most highly rated album on PA, and if I were to rank his albums, I'd probably put it on rank 5. 

I know you didn't say it.
Even if you rank it as your fifth favorite, is it overrated, is it undeserving of all the appreciation and love it gets?! Confused
No, for sure not, and I'm not a fan of the "overrated" concept anyway. However I'm fine discussing why some albums that are generally appreciated don't resonate with some people, and that's the more constructive thing that can be done in this thread. And this doesn't require a complaint any time somebody says an album is overrated that you think deserves appreciation.

I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised at some of the choices here in this thread. If I'm asking why, it does not mean i complain. Just trying to understand.
For me personally one aspect is purely subjective, which melodies work for me and which don't, and I find material on the next three albums and To Watch the Storms just more memorable. But also on Acolyte in my view Steve takes less of a risk than on some later albums. Acolyte caters very well for the prog/Genesis fans (maybe somewhat more on the soft melodic side), but it doesn't really surprise as much as some tracks on later albums do.   


Edited by Lewian - December 03 2024 at 09:30
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

For me personally one aspect is purely subjective, which melodies work for me and which don't, and I find material on the next three albums and To Watch the Storms just more memorable. But also on Acolyte in my view Steve takes less of a risk than on some later albums. Acolyte caters very well for the prog/Genesis fans (maybe somewhat more on the soft melodic side), but it doesn't really surprise as much as some tracks on later albums do.   

Thanks for explaining, you did not even have to do that, you were not the one making the claim that the album is overrated. Smile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

 Steve Hackett: Voyage of the Acolyte

How is this album overrated?! Ouch

Voyage of the Acolyte was the first Steve Hackett album I ever owned. I liked it at first, but over time it fell out of favor with me. With the exceptions of the opening "Ace of Wands" and the miraculous "Star of Sirius", the album is far too repetitive, labored, and (shall we say) ponderous. Of all of Hackett's albums (and I own quite a few), this one has the absolute worst engineering/production. And then there's "The Hermit", which is just plain awful! All of this can of course be attributed to this being Steve's first solo album, and let me be clear: I certainly don't hate it. But I would far rather listen to a heavily-criticized album like Cured (which is livelier, better produced, and Hackett's vocals have greatly improved) than Voyage of the Acolyte. To close, I will concede that I have heard live versions of some of the Acolyte songs that have greatly improved them, and that my very favorite Hackett album is Acolyte's follow-up, Please Don't Touch. 
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I like the idea that The Shadow Of The Heirophant could somehow be playing it safe to Genesis fans. Really? LOL
Tony Banks didn't want that material on a Genesis album so Steve had to develop it elsehwere inevitably leading to his eventual exit from the band That's my take on it. Accept for The Hermit (which is dreadful as someone mentioned) it would be a masterpiece and a top ten prog album for me. I do love a lot of Steve Hackett solo albums and only avoid some of those 80's albums when many musicians had a bout of temporary insanity but I think his debut remains his best to this day. IMO
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
No, for sure not, and I'm not a fan of the "overrated" concept anyway. However I'm fine discussing why some albums that are generally appreciated don't resonate with some people, and that's the more constructive thing that can be done in this thread. 
...

Hi,

To me, this is the issue, in general, that the listener (or in this case the fan) can not add any comments that go beyond the preference side of things ... no reason why they like it ... it's just their favorite band, or a part of their top five kind of thing.

This is the scary part of it all, since, IN MY BOOK, someone that can not explain themselves on their liking something, is, more than likely, just a song listener, and not someone that appreciates the music for what it is ... any other band doing just as much, either better or worse, won't even get a listen!

It's the same thing elsewhere, when some suggestions are made, and you and I figure everyone has the quality of ears/listening to check things out ... but NO ... the comment is ignored ... and this was highly visible on a thread a few days ago, when someone said this song was dramatic, and the one in that album that went way beyond that song, was ignored ... and he didn't even reply, and you just about know that he only heard one song, not the album ... not that this would be the case, but the hectic and explosive nature of the next song in that album, is enough for half the "progressive" folks to turn off and go find a guitar solo somewhere else in "progrock".

It's a damn shame that the music itself is not more important than anyone's comments. I do not think that I am above the music, at all, and the same goes for film ... and my posts are about all the material out there that has more ... a lot more ... than the majority of the top 5's or 10's listed anywhere these days! And now you know why I do not do lists ... I don't want to be having arguments with folks that do not listen to the ALBUM ... instead of just SONG.
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Originally posted by Zappastolethetowels Zappastolethetowels wrote:

Everything Rush & Dream Theater ever released (where is the hiding under the chair emoji when u need it?)


I think its forbidden to agree more than 1000 %

But I agree 10,000 %

Even when I don't know its them , they offend my ear
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like the idea that The Shadow Of The Heirophant could somehow be playing it safe to Genesis fans. Really? LOL
Yeah thats weird. Who wrote that? I think of Voyage of the Acolyte as a playful, creative and surprising album really. Every new song present it's own little universe of sorts - and to me nothing outside of "Star of Sirius" resemble Genesis very much.

-I'll take Hackett's Hermit over Randy Crawford "Hoping Love Will Last" any day of the week. She has the better and stronger voice of course, but so has Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. I still wouldn't want to hear any of them in a Prog Rock context.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like the idea that The Shadow Of The Heirophant could somehow be playing it safe to Genesis fans. Really? LOL
Yeah thats weird. Who wrote that? I think of Voyage of the Acolyte as a playful, creative and surprising album really. Every new song present it's own little universe of sorts - and to me nothing outside of "Star of Sirius" resemble Genesis very much.

-I'll take Hackett's Hermit over Randy Crawford "Hoping Love Will Last" any day of the week. She has the better and stronger voice of course, but so has Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. I still wouldn't want to hear any of them in a Prog Rock context.
That was me. Now I've got to say that I only heard it after having listened to his next three solo albums a lot, and given those maybe it came over as less surprising as it otherwise would've been. Still I see it as closer connected to the Genesis material with him still in the band than the others. I'm not saying it's a Genesis clone.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
But also on Acolyte in my view Steve takes less of a risk than on some later albums. Acolyte caters very well for the prog/Genesis fans (maybe somewhat more on the soft melodic side), but it doesn't really surprise as much as some tracks on later albums do.   

Hi,

My thoughts are, still, that SH wanted to do something that was not a bunch of pop songs, and stringing along a nice "concept" album, was a viable and good idea at the time.

What was strange, was that he did a concept piece, and the rest of the stuff by Genesis, was much more song oriented ... though some of us might not think that TLLDOB is a good example ... but it is a whole bunch of songs kinda put together to create a story. My thoughts are that the band had too much material at that time, by various members, and that TLLDOB was the result of it. 

While I appreciate a lot of SH, I think of him as just another rock'n'roller, and no album of his that I have heard ... has any kind of a feel, or idea, or design, that TVOTA did ... which to me, means that it came from someone else's idea and thoughts, not SH ... otherwise we would have heard more of it in different materials. 

TVOTA is not "over-rated" ... but the majority of SH is!
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^well you've made it clear you don't like a lot of modern prog but have you heard his classical albums like A Midsummers Night Dream or the one with his brother John called Sketches Of Satie? I just want to get a clear idea that you have given all his music a chance? I also like his collaborations with the Hungarian jazz rock band Djabe. There is some very nice stuff there as well. IMO
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

The term "overrated" is overrated.
Finally someone said it LOL

I think, those 'overrated' topics (and there were quite a few in the past) are simply there to bash albums or songs that other people like. Dead
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