Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - QM: Does Time exist?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

QM: Does Time exist?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>
Author
Message
Lewian View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14691
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2024 at 11:09
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

 
Time exists BECAUSE we perceive it. 
How is perception related to existence in your view? I guess you wouldn't say that everything that anybody perceives automatically exists by definition? (Although it indeed then exists as a perception.)
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2024 at 19:10
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Entropy as arrow of time is not my own idea. I don't remember where I've read it first, but it comes from theoretical physics. Probably from a Feynman's book.


There are literally thousands of theories but in the end just theories. Scientists love to mentally masturbate about things that will probably remain unprovable. If time were entropy then we would experience timelines chaotically but rather we experience a smooth linear trajectory.



https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2024 at 20:00
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

 
Time exists BECAUSE we perceive it. 
How is perception related to existence in your view? I guess you wouldn't say that everything that anybody perceives automatically exists by definition? (Although it indeed then exists as a perception.)


Words and concepts are created to define our perceptions and experiences otherwise everything including the true nature of time is based on pure mathematics, most of which is beyond our comprehension.

The word TIME refers to a nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

Since the word was invented to define our perception of this force of nature then that means it exists or we wouldn't have created a word to define it.

What i'm saying is that definitions and words are created to define our experiences and perceptions.
The true nature of time is therefore irrelevant to our definitions.


https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 16 2019
Location: Nottingham, U.K
Status: Online
Points: 39907
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 06:52
Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson explains how gravity affects time, which presumably explains why astronauts appear to be moving in slow motion on the Moon. Tongue



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 17 2024 at 06:52
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 08:40
^ that sh*t is all theoretical. Nobody has a friggin clue how gravity or time really are generated. The name of the science game is to promote the theory that serves an underlying agenda and funded accordingly. Tyson is a poster child shill of scientific propaganda.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4772
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 11:06
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ that sh*t is all theoretical. Nobody has a friggin clue how gravity or time really are generated. The name of the science game is to promote the theory that serves an underlying agenda and funded accordingly. Tyson is a poster child shill of scientific propaganda.
 
Well, I know that the gravity with which we are familiar is a consequence of gravitational time dilation, which has been measured by the Pound-Rebka experiment. And what "underlying agenda" could possibly be served by general relativity if it is not correct?
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - November 17 2024 at 11:12
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
Floydoid View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 02 2007
Location: Planet Prog
Status: Offline
Points: 1487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 13:05
It takes matter, energy and time to co-exist for the universe to function at all, along with the 4 forces - gravity, electro-magnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force - all ultimately controlled by the laws of thermodynamics. It is the 2nd law of thermodynamics that introduces us to the concept of entropy, and the hence direction of change.

For a proper explanation, try to find and watch Brian Cox's 4-part series 'Wonders of the Universe'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_Universe
'We're going to need a bigger swear jar.'
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 21:46
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ that sh*t is all theoretical. Nobody has a friggin clue how gravity or time really are generated. The name of the science game is to promote the theory that serves an underlying agenda and funded accordingly. Tyson is a poster child shill of scientific propaganda.
 
Well, I know that the gravity with which we are familiar is a consequence of gravitational time dilation, which has been measured by the Pound-Rebka experiment. And what "underlying agenda" could possibly be served by general relativity if it is not correct?
 




Actually Einstein was only one scientist who proposed theories but was chosen by the establishment because he conformed to the status quo. Tesla discovered what's called scalar energy and it was Einstein's task to make the public forget about the genius of Nikola Tesla (and others who followed) therefore that experiment is basically unprovable theories of gravity.

There has always been agendas that influence scientists but perhaps no other period changed the course of history more than the Baye-Dole Act of 1980 which limited the breadth of scientific funding. Most of the world unfortunately has been forced to comply with US hegemony on these matters due to the fact that world is basically pegged to the petrol dollar and the system.

If you explore these things deeper it becomes apparent that many of these so-called "discoveries" are really not true.



https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 5348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2024 at 21:58
This is slowly turning into a political drama thread.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 03:01
I knew. Whenever the word "consciousness" appears in a scientific thread, it triggers similar behaviours.

Anyway, the relation between gravity and time is described by T=t0/√v**2/c**2 and gravity, regardless what it is behaves like an acceleration. If ir was false, your navigator would never send you to your chosen destinatikn.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 03:01
Theory in physics is not the sane as hypothesis, anyway

Edited by octopus-4 - November 18 2024 at 03:04
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 09:13
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Theory in physics is not the sane as hypothesis, anyway


Consciousness has everything to do with physics (according to some). There are many physicists who believe the entire world is nothing but a holographic projection and that our consciousness actually collectively creates and alters the laws of nature. 

As far as conventional science is concerned regarding time sometimes results are reproducible but ONLY in very controlled conditions meaning they take into no account the symbiotic effects of other forces and energies in a living dynamic system. In other words results are CREATED by cherry picking input to create the intended results. This is MUCh more common than many would like to believe.

Your assumption about a theory isn't as easy as you'd like to believe. The world has MANY meanings and #6 is most often the one we find in many scientific theories.

the·o·ry

 (thē′ə-rē, thîr′ē)
n. pl. the·o·ries
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.




Edited by siLLy puPPy - November 18 2024 at 09:31

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 09:18
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

I knew. Whenever the word "consciousness" appears in a scientific thread, it triggers similar behaviours.

Anyway, the relation between gravity and time is described by T=t0/√v**2/c**2 and gravity, regardless what it is behaves like an acceleration. If ir was false, your navigator would never send you to your chosen destinatikn.


My GPS gets it wrong all the time! It's not as infallible as many believe. These equations serve as a rough guide, not an absolute. There are parts of the Earth where the geomagnetic energies are quite different and require a completely new set of variables. Obviously the scientific method has yielded untold advancements. That's not my point. The point is when it comes to the nature of time it is virtually unknown, at least what is revealed to the public.

Once again though time does exist because we experience it. That's why every language has a word for it that was created.




Edited by siLLy puPPy - November 18 2024 at 09:18

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 11:39
The formula thai I posted has an errorunder square root it's 1 - v^2/c^2
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 11:42
The formula thai I posted has an error. Under square root it's 1 - v^2/c^2
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 12:53

Excluding consciousness from science is a major factor in the progress or hinderance of scientific understanding.

The holographic principle is gaining a lot of traction in the scientific community, Leanard Susskind is a major proponent of it. I’m not sure where he stands on consciousness creating our reality, but it certainly resonates with me. Again, science has reduced everything to just 2 components, energy and consciousness.  If they take that last step to condense it further, they’ll realize that it’s all consciousness.

What would happen if we played the reduction game with space/time?  If you do that with time, reducing the past and future, you get to a single point that can be called Now. If you do that with space, you get to a single point that can be called Here.  So, everything exists, Here and Now.

Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4772
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 16:56
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Einstein was only one scientist who proposed theories
 
I didn't mention Einstein. I've been a regular visitor of a number of science forums over the past 20 years or more, and crackpots who claim Einstein's theories are wrong are a dime a dozen. Most have a flawed understanding of the theories, and their claims are easily refuted. A common mistake is to refer specifically to Einstein as if he is THE authority on the theories, failing to recognise that more than 100 years have passed since Einstein published those theories, and that those theories have moved on since Einstein.
 
What is your understanding of general relativity? When I said that I know that the gravity with which we are familiar is a consequence of gravitational time dilation, it is because I have personally done the mathematics that establishes this result. One thing about mathematics is that, with the appropriate skills, anyone can do it. It's not subject to the deception that conspiracy theorists claim exists in science. General relativity is a highly mathematical theory, and I see its essential correctness as a result of its mathematical underpinning more so than its many experimental confirmations. However, the Pound-Rebka experiment does more or less prove that the spacetime surrounding earth is curved. Science doesn't normally speak of proofs, but because spacetime curvature is the result of a measurement, it is a factual notion. I say this because it seems to me that many people think of spacetime curvature as an abstract notion. But as a factual notion, it is clear that this must be THE cause of earth's gravity.
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - November 18 2024 at 17:20
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 17:47
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Excluding consciousness from science is a major factor in the progress or hinderance of scientific understanding.

The holographic principle is gaining a lot of traction in the scientific community, Leanard Susskind is a major proponent of it. I’m not sure where he stands on consciousness creating our reality, but it certainly resonates with me. Again, science has reduced everything to just 2 components, energy and consciousness.  If they take that last step to condense it further, they’ll realize that it’s all consciousness.

What would happen if we played the reduction game with space/time?  If you do that with time, reducing the past and future, you get to a single point that can be called Now. If you do that with space, you get to a single point that can be called Here.  So, everything exists, Here and Now.



After the robber barrons bankrupted Nikola Tesla they began to divorce spirit or what Tesla called aether from the sciences. Before that spirituality and science were pretty much unified in most cultures (European cultures and diasporas the exception). After spending a decade in colleges and studying the "orthodox" ways of learning i later discovered that most of what is presented as fact is really just conjecture. The only discipline in modern science i could call relevant is engineering. Everything else is only presented to the public in calculated doses and super advanced physics is classified in black budget projects.

As far as time goes it's very possible all time exists simultaneously and how we perceive it is what makes it "time." Those who participated in the Montauk Projects have stated as much. Sounds possible to me.



https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
CosmicVibration View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CosmicVibration Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2024 at 20:18
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Excluding consciousness from science is a major factor in the progress or hinderance of scientific understanding.

The holographic principle is gaining a lot of traction in the scientific community, Leanard Susskind is a major proponent of it. I’m not sure where he stands on consciousness creating our reality, but it certainly resonates with me. Again, science has reduced everything to just 2 components, energy and consciousness.  If they take that last step to condense it further, they’ll realize that it’s all consciousness.

What would happen if we played the reduction game with space/time?  If you do that with time, reducing the past and future, you get to a single point that can be called Now. If you do that with space, you get to a single point that can be called Here.  So, everything exists, Here and Now.



After the robber barrons bankrupted Nikola Tesla they began to divorce spirit or what Tesla called aether from the sciences. Before that spirituality and science were pretty much unified in most cultures (European cultures and diasporas the exception). After spending a decade in colleges and studying the "orthodox" ways of learning i later discovered that most of what is presented as fact is really just conjecture. The only discipline in modern science i could call relevant is engineering. Everything else is only presented to the public in calculated doses and super advanced physics is classified in black budget projects.

As far as time goes it's very possible all time exists simultaneously and how we perceive it is what makes it "time." Those who participated in the Montauk Projects have stated as much. Sounds possible to me.


I think engineering is also presented to the public in calculated doses.  Is there any real funding for free energy generation?  The concept of zero point energy was introduced over a hundred years ago.  It was proven for the first time in the late 50’s via the Casimir effect.  Since then it was verified many times over all over the world.  I’m willing to bet Tesla figured it out and that technology was buried along with many other things the public doesn’t know about.


Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2024 at 07:47
^ most advanced technologies created by indie scientists find themselves confiscated by the alphabet agencies and then the patents acquired by the US under the guise of "national security." Of course it all exists, most likely even time travel. Correct about engineering being given into calculated doses but my point was that at least engineers who build bridges and airplanes have to know what they're doing. Most other sciences simply rely on computer programs to feed them preestablished concepts and equations.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.142 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.