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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 01 2024 at 20:19
I know of a fusion band who are not on this website but they are on jazz music archives. Do I have to come up with an entirely new paragraph (using my own words) or can I just provide a link to the jazz music archives link for this band? If I have to start from scratch can I use that entry on JMA and just put it in my own words? This is a pretty highly acclaimed band that really should be on here. Thanks.
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I would say provide a link to the JMA page for the band by all means, but if you decide to rely on the biography it contains for your information, then definitely put that information into your own words before posting it here...both to satisfy the PA requirements for suggested band biographies to be original ones, and also just in case the biography was copied from somewhere else by whoever added the band to JMA.

I've had my own biographies criticised in the past because I've compiled them from various bits and pieces taken from other sites without editing them enough to prevent some sentences being detected as plagiarism, so these days I always run everything I write through a site such as Duplichecker to make sure it's considered to be 100% original before I post it in a suggestion here.
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Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

...
I've had my own biographies criticised in the past because I've compiled them from various bits and pieces taken from other sites without editing them enough to prevent some sentences being detected as plagiarism, so these days I always run everything I write through a site such as Duplichecker to make sure it's considered to be 100% original before I post it in a suggestion here.

Hi,

I have written over 600 film reviews, and about 50 music reviews (all of it on my website, not here) ... and I can not say that I have ever had that issue, or thought. First, and foremost, and it is very visible here on PA and the postings, I do not see the same thing as everyone else ... I take a much more historic and "quotidian" look at a lot of music, and a lot of my thoughts about a lot of folks here is that too much of it is centered on the pedestrian idea of form, and design ... just like the definition of "progressive music" that thinks that no other music could possibly have anything like that! Stravinsky is still laughing in his grave at the ideas alone!

The point is, the individuality ... in the film reviews, I often take a director's or a cinematographer's point of view in coming up with what to say about the film ... here, you can't do that, because folks will think you are stupid, or in my case, make a point of ignoring it ... and telling them that ideas and thoughts don't come sweetened by their favoritism from anywhere ... there you have it ... or what we know of as the "internet age" sometimes ... it becomes all trolling and no real comments.  Big smile

I don't have any thoughts or ideas, about how to do anything ... each film, or album, as it is a completely different experience, and I stick to that feeling while in the middle of it ... nothing else, and really, how is someone else's comment going to be an issue, if they are completely off base and not "on point" in their comment, in regards to the idea and thought? I don't have an answer for you on that!

I do, on occasion, look at Wiki, and IMDB ... but more often than not, I end up confused as to what it states compared to what I felt ... so I only grab the film details for my reviews, and this includes, cinematographer, music, actors, and who wrote it. You can ... OFTEN ... get a bigger idea of things in that area ... however, this is a SERIOUS problem with rock music ... we all walk around smoking a joint thinking that Ian Anderson and Genesis invented lyrics and stories ... and the world be damned, as well as any other art out there! Thus, you can see how some folks would not like me not kissing up to the fan's ideals ... specially as right around them in their backyards, film, theater, literature and other arts were LIVE AND ACTIVE ... which a lot of rock folks don't want to discuss as it might break off their ideas in half ... is how I look at it ... the idea that rock musicians are too stupid to see a film, a play, or read a book, or paint ... in favor of their "SONG" and "HIT" which gets mentioned and numbered ... is crazy, and beyond me ... I'll still pass away not knowing anything about that and how some folks can hide from the social areas around them! 

To me, writing a review ... is not exactly about the album, or the book, or the film ... it's about me ... how I felt and reacted ... and I don't think you, or me, had the same reaction as a hundred other folks ... unless you first went over and read 5 details about the album or film! It will be especially hard for you to come up with your own idea and version at that point!

PS: A really good example is Peter Greenaway's NIGHTWATCHING. If you read anything, and study any art, knowing about Rembrandt and the painting will render the film boring and sad ... take all that away (I knew nothing about the film or story before seeing it) ... and your enjoyment goes out the door ... and later in the DVD you can watch Peter's special on Rembrandt ... the best art lesson EVER and the son of a beech knows more about Rembrandt than any professor of art I have ever seen or met!


Edited by moshkito - October 02 2024 at 10:34
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

I would say provide a link to the JMA page for the band by all means, but if you decide to rely on the biography it contains for your information, then definitely put that information into your own words before posting it here...both to satisfy the PA requirements for suggested band biographies to be original ones, and also just in case the biography was copied from somewhere else by whoever added the band to JMA.

I've had my own biographies criticised in the past because I've compiled them from various bits and pieces taken from other sites without editing them enough to prevent some sentences being detected as plagiarism, so these days I always run everything I write through a site such as Duplichecker to make sure it's considered to be 100% original before I post it in a suggestion here.



There's actually an album they did from 2023 that isn't listed there. Anyway, I'm not sure if I want to do a review for submission but if someone else does then they can do their own research and also use that link (RYM is also helpful for discographies). 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 02 2024 at 17:57
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Points: 6364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2024 at 21:56
I'm listening to their latest album now, and it sounds like a shoo-in for JR/F to these ears. I'll put something together tomorrow with regards to a biography and hopefully get them evaluated. They belong on the site somewhere, that's for sure. You did suggest them back in August 2023, a few days after their third album 'Dreams' was released, but the lack of an original biography was what led to the suggestion not being followed up. I'll post what I manage to put together for a biography (plus a choice of three better band images than the one on JMA) in that original suggestion thread, since it's still alive.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 18278 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2024 at 22:18
It figures that I did but until you mentioned that I forgot that I posted them in the suggest new bands section. Obviously that didn't go anywhere which is unfortunate but it seems to me there's a lot of suggestions that don't go anywhere. I wonder how many great bands and albums don't get added on here because either no one takes them seriously or no one notices. 

Anyway, thanks for doing that.
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Points: 6364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2024 at 22:50
No problem Mike. I've already notified the JR/F team in their thread, and promised to provide the biography if they agree to evaluate the band. The biography on JMA is lifted word for word from Big Beautiful Noise's review of the band's debut album 'Transformation' from 2019, so there was no way that biography could have been used! Even if it was an original biography, although JMA is a sister site to PA we still couldn't have used it without rewording it a fair bit.
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 18278 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2024 at 11:13
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

No problem Mike. I've already notified the JR/F team in their thread, and promised to provide the biography if they agree to evaluate the band. The biography on JMA is lifted word for word from Big Beautiful Noise's review of the band's debut album 'Transformation' from 2019, so there was no way that biography could have been used! Even if it was an original biography, although JMA is a sister site to PA we still couldn't have used it without rewording it a fair bit.

Is this all about copyright laws and ownership of material? Is that why it needs to be original? If so I understand. There was (or maybe still is) a music magazine that took two online interviews I did without my permission and posted them on their facebook page (or maybe also website). I admit I was pretty pissed. They couldn't even bother to ask for my permission. I suppose there's this way of thinking that if something is online then it's fair game and you don't need to give credit or ask permission. They did cite me as the author but didn't ask for my permission so I was still annoyed by it. Eventually they took it down after someone finally responded to me but it took a while (maybe a few years). Anyway, thanks for doing this.
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Points: 6364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2024 at 16:03
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Is this all about copyright laws and ownership of material? 
I guess so. Up until February 2020, certain forum users were posting multiple suggestions each week with nothing more than a couple of copied lines of text from Bandcamp or similar to describe the artists they were proposing. This meant that the collabs in the evaluation teams were left with the unenviable tasks of writing the eventual biographies for all these artists if they were subsequently cleared for addition, and it was just getting out of hand.

Keishiro therefore updated the artist submission procedure in February 2020 to make it a requirement that an original biography had to be provided with a new submission before it would be considered for evaluation by any team. We still do get proposals with no original biography, since not many people seem to bother reading Keishiro's sticky at the top of the New Suggestions Forum before they post, but they will be reminded politely in their thread that an original biography (and a suitable band or artist photo) must be provided before their suggestion can be considered.
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Points: 17517 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2024 at 22:15
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

...
Is this all about copyright laws and ownership of material? Is that why it needs to be original? If so I understand. There was (or maybe still is) a music magazine that took two online interviews I did without my permission and posted them on their facebook page (or maybe also website). I admit I was pretty pissed. They couldn't even bother to ask for my permission. I suppose there's this way of thinking that if something is online then it's fair game and you don't need to give credit or ask permission. They did cite me as the author but didn't ask for my permission so I was still annoyed by it. Eventually they took it down after someone finally responded to me but it took a while (maybe a few years). Anyway, thanks for doing this.

Hi,

(I hope I get this right ... tough area to comment!)

With the internet in the past 30 years, we now can hear, and just about see anything that is out there and when it comes to music, as time goes by, more and more folks will think someone is taking their song, or parts of the song and duh and duh and duh ... thus, it is important that sooner or later, all copyright laws get re-worded and re-written in order to be able to start some kind of controls.

But remember one thing ... controls, and copyrights were put together by the film companies starting 100 years ago, and they were the biggest thieves of them all, and thought they were preventing folks from taking their ideas. Thus the whole thing about copyrights, is written by folks that are only intentionally trying to scare everyone into only do what they want and keep the money inhouse!

Publishing anything, in the "net, or otherwise, without the author's knowledge and permission is very uncool ... but there is a problem here ... if the site is not "commercial", there is no money involved, and the best you can do is try to get them to take it down ... and many times, they won't, which has happened to me, however, my only comment is that the owner was going to put up the wrong person sooner or later and they would regret for the rest of their life! A commercial site (with ads for example) can get sued ... and those folks will not like the whole legal side of things.

The only thing that makes it different, in my case, is that what I write and show on my web site and here, is strictly me, and I posted above how I see things on my reviews for film, and music, although with rock music, the role of a "director" or "cinematographer" has no place in the song at all ... and for me, maybe its film and theater and literature that does this ... a lot of rock music really lacks in presentation and a more polished take on the music itself ... not that it needs a George Martin or a Tom Dowd, but there were lessons in quality there that helped a lot and made them different.

I have been published in a few Film Festivals as program notes for various films ... a few years back I wrote reviews of a lot of smaller, less known films at the Portland International Film Festival, a festival that caters to the wine glass folks in Portland, not to the art itself ... and guess which reviews were shown elsewhere? I'm proud of that, but in Portland many of the folks at the Film Center, did not like me writing original ideas and notes about a film, for a program notes ... they wanted quotes from elsewhere, with an unwritten rule that each Festival is helping other Festivals! I did notes for about 10 or 15 films over 5 or more years, but they were tough ... they were "allowed" to use someone else's stuff without a note as to where it came from ... but original stuff was not their preference ... I guess they did not want a handful of "reviewers" doing their thing, or taking away some precious public money from the funding out of their own pockets!

But at the time, there were many local bulletin boards, and you were able to post it in a couple of places where locals got to see it ... I'm not sure how much it helped but seeing some of my work be used (I was asked!!!) elsewhere was far out ... and I thanked them for the honour.

But, since I am not in it to make a living, my take on things is different ... and I apologize for that just in case.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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