/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
|
Tull-Under Wraps Wilson Remix...plus |
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author | ||||
dr prog 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Online Points: 2489 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Tull-Under Wraps Wilson Remix...plusPosted: July 26 2024 at 19:14 |
|||
|
Just remix the drum machine so the snare isn’t tinny and the bass drum is quieter.
The bass guitar is too quiet too. I can do my own remix if Wilson doesn’t 
|
||||
|
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
|
||||
 |
||||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 19 2024 at 18:46 |
|||
Hi, In the end, when comparing the FM radio of the 70's, and I was there with Guy Guden as my roommate for most of it, by the mid 70's I had gone COMPLETELY into the imports and a lot of things that came out, just were not as valuable or important, and I felt that Ian had gone for the "songs" and the far out stuff he did that was different was kinda left behind, in my book. Guess what? The European bands had not exactly forgotten much and they continued with a lot of far out stuff, that was more interesting, and less "familiar" to our ears ... I think that I was already leaning towards the NEW MUSIC from elsewhere, and that a lot of things that were being done by the "major" bands, had already gone ... and now, it was a new day, and a new sound, and a new band. I like Ian and his work ... it's just that I would rather spend my money on some Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Ange, PFM, Banco, at the time, than another Jethro Tull album ... to me his material just was not as special anymore ... still good ... but I had already gone to the other side of the commercial sound, and I never fell for the MTV (later) or the "classic" bs ... because it was all the same ... we needed something new, and that's where I was.
I beg to differ a wee bit ... though we're close to the same words. FM radio in America, by 1980 had all been bought out, and changed ... so yeah ... all the new music we had for 10/15 years was GONE. Of course there had to be a change ... what was there before was gone. The freedom to play something else not on the lists of some megalomaniac, was totally gone, as the DJ's no longer had any control over music choices ... which Guy's station in Santa Barbara DID for many years until it was sold to a corporate raider (Texaco I think!), it immediately changed to having to play what was defined and marked as "hit". In many ways, what I call the Great American Corporate Rape of Radio, forced musicians to ... now what, and yeah, they all had families like we did! But some didn't give in all the way ... and even having Daevid Allen and some others to meet and greet and talk ... was enough to show how it had to go ... they were not going to stop playing or making music. (Daevid spent his time in SB with friends, and did the Divided Alien thing by himself and tapes)
The public had no choice. The main issue is that no one fought the FCC and the Corporate Raids. Same ting in LA with KMET ... they fired everyone, and opened up in the morning as a new age station ... the subtext was that the big stations in LA had lost a huge case against many of the local bands that wanted airplay ... and rather than give in, the owners of the station (Metromedia had the other station KLOS) put up a finger to these bands ... the corporate folks were not going to be told what they had to play! The "public" did not choose "classical rock" ... per se ... but it was what was given along with the pre-defined materials to play ... this is often said to be the time that "progressive music" died ... because it lost the one way that they were presented to the public ... and radio has never been the same, specially since the FCC decided that one conglomerate could own more than one station in any market ... there would be two stations in LA playing the same thing, the same tapes, with the timing being the only change.
I feel that musicians begun taking control back with the Internet and in the 1990's, and it was very clear and obvious when bands like Porcupine Tree and Marillion and just a wee bit later Dream Theater and others were able to carve their own identity ... and it helped define the new way for many ... but not without a fight from the corporate standard ... you still did not have these on the FM radio dials, although a station or two (one here in Portland) played a lot of ROCK music that was getting a lot of attention, and that included things like Metallica for example. Musicians, often had more control than they knew, but everyone kept thinking that they had to wait for their "break" which was someone to show up at the door with a bucket of cash ... which didn't happen ... but when PT, DT and Marillion started selling those cassettes and getting attention, the corporate folks showed up ... with a distribution deal ... that was to make sure the albums/cassettes/CD's got to various places for public consumption. But the upside for the record companies was that they would not be spending money on studios and as much promotion, though if something sold big, they were on it right away ... they had nothing to lose. The Firesign Theater (comedy), was near us, and Guy knows more about this than I do, but one of their friends from the early days, kept telling them to go independent ... and not sign anything to a record company, but they never did, I presume, because the easy check was easier to take home, that hoping that something sold. And this was around mid 70's I think .... and I wonder if he already foresaw that the corporate raids were going to happen and very quickly ... but no one was prepared for it ... Today ... it's another story ... and things keep on changing ... the sad one being that so much of the material that we hear is so similar to each other, as to make listening a lot of stuff really ... not boring ... but you end up wondering ... can anyone do something else? something new? ... and not repeat the same formulas? PS: Reminds me of a turkey company that bought the ISP that I did tech support for, and someone asked about AT&T ... and he was an AT&T technician on the upper level ... at that time things were broken up per law, and what did he say? Just a little more time ... we'll have even more! Guess what the record companies keep trying to do? BUT, I think they are doing so because the number of "players" are bigger, and thus it seems like they are "winning" the battle ... in essence, they probably aren't, but the IRS had no jurisdiction on the massively huge corporate houses in America. (And now the Supreme Court is taking more of the Government off these large companies ... this time oil!!!) These corporations will continue to do what they want and wish ... and a band has no chance, unless they take immediate control!
Edited by moshkito - July 21 2024 at 08:22 |
||||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
|
||||
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28028 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 19 2024 at 15:42 |
|||
|
I doubt that Anderson made any 'obvious decision' that you assert. Tull actually stuck with prog longer than many other artists from that era. Eventually they all went the same way. I've seen a lot of opinion in general that artists were chasing radio airplay towards the back end of the 1970's but mostly it came from a sense that change was in the air. Many of these guys were still in their twenties or early thirties and raising families. Prog was a commercial enterprise in 1972 but by 1977 it was being rounded on by critics. I don't blame anyone for changing horses at that time and trying to justify their choice. Ultimately music has to change to evolve but the MTV culture of the 80's nearly killed it altogether. It was only stopped from happening because the public still wanted the classic rock and prog of the early to mid seventies and not the fake producer lead crap that was being peddled. Musicians woke up to this and took control back. That's as I see it.
|
||||
|
||||
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 19:51 |
|||
|
Hi,
As a lover of the arts, and specially music, I do not feel qualified to judge Ian's choices for his work, and how he wishes to distribute it. I have not heard a lot of JT since Songs from the Wood ... when Ian made the obvious decision to become the main artist on the American FM radio with his releases. Somehow, in my mind, there was better music all around the world and played on Space Pirate Radio, that was far better, and more interesting ... it does not mean that Ian is no longer the artist he was/is, but it means that my time on his work has stopped ... as my interests have gone elsewhere. Great works in the earlier days, absolutely no doubt about it! But I'm not sure a new version of it is gonna make it better, with either Karajahn or Bernstein or Wilson or another conductor at the helm. I don't think that the life of the original music can be "taken out" or "changed" despite it sounding very different.
|
||||
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
||||
|
||||
|
verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17130 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 10:41 |
|||
|
||||
|
||||
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28028 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 10:31 |
|||
I love the fact that they got Eddie Jobson involved on A but then that perhaps just makes me have unrealistic expectations for it. I'm prepared to try again with it but it's not a priority!
|
||||
|
||||
|
Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14727 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 16:48 |
|||
|
I'm part of the "it has some good stuff" crowd (I love Later That Same Evening) and would be very keen to listen to it with a proper drummer. But then a drummer brings in a new dynamic and so just adding a drummer to what already exists wouldn't be remotely as good as had the band recorded it with a proper drummer originally. Full re-recording isn't going to happen, I'm afraid.
Actually the Under Wraps tour was the only time I saw them live, and they were overall good if probably not as good as they had been earlier. The drummer (I forgot who it was) was pretty true to the sound of the album and generally not that impressive.
Edited by Lewian - July 17 2024 at 16:49 |
||||
|
||||
|
verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17130 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 10:00 |
|||
Mostly true, but A is another essential Tull release. I also love The Broadsword and the Beast (though many of the songs that didn't make the album are as good, if not better). Crest of a Knave is also very good, though "Steel Monkey" wouldn't sound out of place on Under Wraps. |
||||
|
||||
|
Heart of the Matter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3116 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 08:35 |
|||
|
I think that almost any seriously done drumming would improve drastically this (joke of an) album, but that, rather than remix, would be directly a re-recording.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19281 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 07:25 |
|||
|
||||
|
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
||||
|
||||
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator 
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20240 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 07:22 |
|||
That's about my take on it. Even with proper drums, the songs will remain not good (staying polite here) Outside European Legacy, nothing worse saving.
Better yet, they should've left unwrapped the master tapes before setting up the instruments
I saw Tull on that tour (one of my worse concert ever). If Ian's voice would've been the only problem  , then no problem.It took me 20 years to go see Tull back on stage. Have you tried Roots To Branches (from 96)? That's the only one I bothered with. rarely listen to it nowadays, but I like the Eastern influences on it. I also find Knave OK (if you abstract the two tracks that have eloped from ZZ's Eliminator album), and if I got it at home, it's because it was dirt cheap and didn't want to come out empty-handed .
|
||||
|
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
||||
|
||||
|
Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19281 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 07:22 |
|||
I've got them all up to Broadsword, which is actually quite enjoyable (if partly from a nostalgic point of view), although admittedly 'slight' compared to their best. I dusted 'A' down again last week; it has a couple of good tracks, but is probably mostly memorable for the 'Slipstream' DVD attached to the remaster, which probably should be in every Tull fan's collection. After UW, owing to Anderson's aforementioned vocal limitations, they seemed to morph into Dire Straits on Crest and they lost me somewhat...
|
||||
|
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
|
||||
|
||||
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28028 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 07:03 |
|||
|
^ I've heard it said that Anderson was suffering from Laryngitis on that tour and it permanently f**ked his voice up, was never the same again.
Never heard the album. Post Stormwatch I'm only picking Tull up again in the 00's. Just about anything from classic prog bands in the 80's is virtually unlistenable anyway to my ears.
|
||||
|
||||
|
omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6341 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 05:42 |
|||
In 1984, there was an Under Wraps tour. Below are the "Under Wraps" songs played on the 1984 tour. Tull's set list varied throughout the tour...with songs from every album played on different nights. I don't know if Tull recorded any of the concerts.  Later, That Same Evening... 38 Under Wraps #1...38 Nobody's Car...34 Apogee...25 European Legacy...21 Under Wraps #2...3 Heat...1 Under Wraps...1 Lap of Luxury...1 Although Paparazzi wasn't played on the 1984 tour...Tull played Paparazzi 62 times during the 90s. Edited by omphaloskepsis - July 17 2024 at 10:29 |
||||
|
||||
|
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 20:56 |
|||
|
Was there a tour? Are there live versions of the songs? I expect those would have a live drummer doing a better job.
|
||||
|
||||
|
The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13056 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 18:57 |
|||
|
They should have named it "Forgettable." And literally kept it under wraps.
Edited by The Dark Elf - July 16 2024 at 18:57 |
||||
|
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
||||
|
||||
|
Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13351 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 15:20 |
|||
|
I don't dislike Under Wraps, but is not certainly one of my favorites. Even Ian Anderson once said Duane Perry should record the drums for the album and then they should reissue it. I think it would benefit the music, but I don't think it's a project that will ever happen.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6467 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 15:01 |
|||
|
Under Wraps has some great lyrics to it, and melodies, but it is marred too heavily by the electronica, including the drums. A serious remix with more prominent guitar, less programming, and real drums would be welcome. So, yeah, let's do it.
|
||||
|
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
|
||||
|
||||
|
Octopus II
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2023 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 10382 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 11:27 |
|||
|
I think Under Wraps does have some good songs as well.
Under Wraps # 2 is my favourite from the album. As a collector of these Tull book/box sets I would definitely buy it if it had 'proper' drums.
 Edited by Octopus II - July 16 2024 at 11:28 |
||||
|
||||
|
verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17130 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 11:10 |
|||
|
Under Wraps does have some good songs.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
richardh wrote: