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Bob Hope or Spike Milligan |
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Icarium 
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 Topic: Bob Hope or Spike MilliganPosted: May 30 2023 at 17:26 |
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If i understand it rightly across and between the atlantic pond, this gentlement defined the humor. In my interest to study comedy and the tallents thar shaped the artform. From hearing interview from vafious people in comedy, bodh american and from Britain and Ireland.
Whos your favourite? I will make other wierd of off shart poll. I could have pikked Peter Sellers but from yesterday i understood thst Milligan is more renknown and influentual. |
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Logan
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 17:30 |
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Oops, I voted for Spike Milligan as preference (damned careless of me), but I can't say who is more impactful. Spike Milligan certainly was very impactful though.
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65250 |
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 17:38 |
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Gotta go with Spike, I like but never got Bob Hope... and in the tragic tradition of PA, I will also cite my own two English/American greats: WC Fields and Charlie Chaplin. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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moshkito
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 19:54 |
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Hi,
Spike for sure. Besides being an excellent writer, he was also a good actor, and his characters acted very well opposite Peter Sellers for 12 years to create amazing and insane stories and tales. The Goons, however, were about the "stories" and the "acting" that took place, which made their comedy so strong, specially within the radio theater area, where imagination was very important. Bob Hope had no such advantage, and TV offered him none that helped. And he did not have a great writer like Spike to help, either. The other side of Spike that makes him much more valuable is his insane list of books, and stories about WW2 ... and specially how much his mates and friends enjoyed his antics ... and his stories are priceless. His fun side with the public was even better ... he did a lot of work reading stories for children and many of them are recorded and they are neat ... even if you are an adult ... they are a terrific grandpa having fun with the kids, and they love him. And if that's not enough he also had a few songs written that were nuts, but a lot of fun, and the Goons had them all released as "Unchained Melodies". All his life he was a thorn on the side of the BBC, but not in a bad way, and the Goon Shows has a lot of criticism about the censorship and other parts of the BBC having taken down things from the script, which might have been more political than what we heard ... but his satires on the Government are priceless ... "I resign!" ... or one of the best ... they all run off to take their tea break! ... don't forget that all this has sound effects running the whole time! And they are totally beautiful and outrageous and make your head spin ... and waiting until you hear that train come through the window ... or the falling teeth ... or the dreadful lurgi ... To give you a better idea of how valuable the visual imagery of The Goons was, the first two films by the Beatles were, in many ways a "visual Goons" as Spike said many times, the material having been taken almost directly from the show, and this was all an issue because the BBC would not given them any money to make a film, and even though they managed with some folks wallets here and there, things like the McGonagal story is not even as funny or as good as the MvGonagal bits in the show itself ... Spike was very much a surrealist that could not be quite be seen live, but the images in your mind were outstanding and too good to be true! Normally, I do not do "heroes" and dislike hero stories ... but if I have two folks I look up to? Spike Milligan and Chuck Jones, as two of the most creative and important artists of the 20th century! Their "stretching" of reality was extremely valuable to the arts and its development. We don't often see that because we do not see "cartoons" or "comedy" as something that is anything but an escape and fun! Even Chuck used to say they invented the rocket before Nasa, and they never had the courtesy to even buy him a lunch! The worst part of it all is the BBC, who has in its gates of hell at least 50 to 75 more Goon shows, and a few with the previous member Michael Bentine, which they will not release ... and my guess is that many of those are not "suitable" due to various comments and stories created that were not exactly appreciated. Compared to "The Goon Show Companion" the BBC has only released about 124 shows (31 CD's with 4 titles each), maybe a couple more, of a list of what is likely over 200 shows over 12/13 years at least! Censorship seems to have been worse than a bad queen or worse King! And a prince that doesn't care and has lost all his humor!
Edited by moshkito - May 30 2023 at 20:14 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Icarium
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 10:33 |
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Bob Hope is born in London, though growing up in US
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moshkito
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 18:34 |
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Hi, American Radio did not develop as much as it did in England with the BBC putting on a lot of stuff that got really well known. The Goons were known to be the most famous of them all for a long time, until the Beatles took the stage. But, in America, TV had no "soul" per se, and it did not go with the talent and workers that had created so much stuff in radio, and instead invented crap shows and games ... which did not help Bob Hope one iota, and only a handful of others made it through the grapevine, although most of us do not even remember them ... I was thinking Jonathan Winters, for example. Mel Brooks managed to make it in TV, but it took a couple of other lunatics to help him, and the show was not as popular but it ended up getting attention, but it was too weird to stay on by itself. Didn't hurt Mel ... you can't keep a great writer down! Not sure I represented American TV well, but this is all I see in it, when I came to America in 1965 ... a lot of strange shows, most of them silly as heck and just doing gags like the English were, however I never felt there were "stories" or any literary sense in a lot of the work. Honeymooners were fun, but always the same. Gilligan's Island was the same. Bonanza was the same. And I am thinking that it was already the "controls" at the wheel that knew they got enough public interest to ensure they could keep it going, since it was a great seller of a lot of products for TV. But some suffered ... Ernie Kovacs material is out of this world, and no one could really deal with him ... he was probably the closest to The Goons in its implementation!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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omphaloskepsis
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 18:46 |
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: June 01 2023 at 01:43 |
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Rodney Dangerfield
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moshkito
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Posted: June 01 2023 at 04:41 |
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Hi, Paul ... you need some GOONS to get an idea of what great stuff is. Rodney is fun, but not half as entertaining as The Goons are. Their imagery from the sound effects and bits are way more satisfying. Shame really ... you'll never sit through "Six Charlies in Search of An Author" ... "The Case of the Vanishing Room" ... "China Story" ... "The House of Teeth" ... "The Missing 10 Downing Street" ... the climbing of Mt. Everest from the inside ... the silent bugler only idiots can hear ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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omphaloskepsis
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Posted: June 01 2023 at 08:45 |
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I'll check episodes out on Youtube. I dipped my toes into "Rommel's Treasure". I plan to count how many topical/historical jokes I get...jokes like , " and Rommel made good his escape in James Mason's car."
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: June 01 2023 at 09:12 |
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Sorry, never been a big fan of The Goons, or Spike Milligan's offbeat humour either. Spike just doesn't tickle my funny bone like Rodney Dangerfield does.
 Edited by Psychedelic Paul - June 01 2023 at 09:16 |
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moshkito
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 07:16 |
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Hi, Wait until you read Spike's books about the war ... the jokes are even better! ... the beebecee has shows running every day ... though they repeat way too much for my tastes. The have enough shows to go a full year without repeating themselves!
Edited by moshkito - June 02 2023 at 07:18 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Ronstein
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 10:35 |
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Spike Milligan was a one off. he and the rest of the Goons laid the foundations for much of what followed, through Round The Horne (Kenneth Williams), The Frost Report (John Cleese, Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbett) , Monty Python, and beyond.
Subversive, satirical, anti-establishment comedy was briliantly disguised as silliness, with endless smut and innuendo accumulated in large part from the 'other ranks' in WW2 which completely bypassed the upper class BBC censors who didn't understand the references. An example was the regular appearance of Royal Commentator Hugh Jampton - cockney rhyming slang for a man having a large appendage (Huge Hampton (Hampton Wick - D*ck)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 13:00 |
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I'm not the least bit familiar with Spike Milligan and although I've heard some bad stuff about Bob Hope I still felt he was entertaining. Most millenials probably have no idea who he was though (or Spike Milligan too for that matter).
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Logan
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 13:06 |
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Spike Milligan. I know this is kind of wrong, I know his views were less than PC often, but I find this Spike Milligan sketch so funny, and endearing.
"Put him in the curry." |
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moshkito
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 18:16 |
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Hi,
I wish there was a clip of Spike asking Princess Diana to take off with him instead of that Charlie named ... what is his name?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan
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Posted: June 02 2023 at 21:37 |
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There is this
What a treasure he is and it does make me yearn for the days when someone like him was valued more by the BBC execs. I like various members of Monty Python have been quite appalled by comments and agendas being pushed by the comedy departments of the BBC. I love irreverence, and now it feels like that is more within certain let’s not offend limits, and upper management does not favour those groundbreaking, irreverent men who might offend many from certain backgrounds. Sad. It really does bring out the very conservative, traditionalist back in the gold days English man in me. And as is common, I get more conservative/ traditional as I get older. I say traditionalist, but watching the coronation of Charles definitely brought out the abolish the monarchy in me. That pomp and circumstance does not jibe with more socialist side. I have liked his views often, and some have seemed so naively idealistic, he often seens such a twit. Sorry Icarium, this post turned out really crap. Edited by Logan - June 02 2023 at 23:14 |
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moshkito
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Posted: June 03 2023 at 06:17 |
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Hi, Charles has no class and lost his good nature, waiting a hundred years to get where he is, and now, doesn't really want to be there at all ... his face says it. What is strange is that for someone that frequented so many of the Goon shows at the BBC stages, that he has lost his humor and his smile is cynical these days. His views are what is "given him" that he has to follow, just like his sons have had to face that music. And Harry told him to take a dive into the Thames! (joke: dirty river!) The press machine that the monarchy owns, including the publications needs to be "undressed" and shown how they manipulate the public sentiment. it won't happen until some kind of something else 3rd party or newspaper comes alive to put a good hurt on the fat, rich bubbles in that government. Not to mention ugly and not funny.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Icarium
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Posted: June 03 2023 at 14:19 |
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^^ no this is what i wanted, true homage and videos homaging comedy and humor. I would like more Bob Hope funfacts also. I know Genie (Robin Williams) shapeshifted into both Bob Hope and Richard Prior in one of the Aladdin movies, becoese hes / was influenced by them.
Robin also was inspired by the english comedians also. There is some Spike in Robbins reportoar |
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moshkito
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Posted: June 04 2023 at 19:25 |
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Hi, If you saw the Acting Studio thing with Robin Williams, you will find that he was very intelligent, and way too fast in his head for most people. Not to mention that he must have had a very fast reading ability, because he could mention and take on a lot of literature, something that almost no "comedian" takes on, since they are all about the gag and the joke. Robin's jaunts into everywhere ad-lib are an incredible soup of various things all mixed up into one. And he has fun with it, when Terry Gilliam let's him loose! Spike, perhaps because of WW2 and not being able to get a better education, is very literate, and is very good at making fun of a lot of well known books, and turn them into fun things ... "Six Charlies in Search of An Author" probably being one of the better ones, but they are not, by very far, the only one. But, for Spike, history and such is for fun, specially when trying to create jobs by adding a canal across Africa! Time for TEA! NOTE: Spike was not the only writer for The Goons. Often Larry Stephens, Jimmy Grafton, also added to it, although some folks were involved by being their own characters ... Wallace Greenslade was an example, and the funny one leading the band never gets boring. NOTE: In many ways, this is a very sad comparison ... Bob made his name as a newbie in television in America at a time when it did not know what it wanted, and thought a three sentence gag was the best way, next to advertising! In England, the BBC had a MASSIVE HISTORY of radio stuff that had gone on for many years, going back to the 1930's, as did America, however, radio in America dropped everything except the top tens, as the stations were all owned by the same corporate entities selling you the music. The BBC had a hand in that (I'm sure that the House of Lard owned many of the record companies and all that!), but it was not as evident because there was no "advertising" which meant that the MATERIAL and its IMPACT on an audience was very important ... this is what killed radio in America after WW2. They thought TV would pick it up, only to become exactly the same thing as AM radio these days, with the same awful programming, with the excuse that it is "top ten". America had a wonderful story in radio, even though it was Orson Welles that brought the whole thing to a complete halt as the FCC decided to take away the literary freedom of all the writers, which is still vivid and seen on television ... even the pay services! At the least, things like The Goons, Doctor Who and many other shows got their chance and became world famous ... Bob Hope, sadly enough, is hardly known anywhere else. He missed out on "radio" where he could have improved and polished his delilveries.
Edited by moshkito - June 09 2023 at 12:37 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Icarium wrote: