Re-arrange the Top 30 of all time |
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jamesbaldwin
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 5986 |
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I've tried to explain my opinion in my review: I'm surprised that this album is held in such high regard here in PA (number 12 on the Top Albums of all time!). I think it is the worst of the classic Genesis period (and even Trespass is much better). The famous "The Musical Box" (rating 7.5 / 8) is a song that starts slow, subdued, intimate and stays in this mood (monotonous at times) for almost 4 minutes; then comes the rock instrumental part, where the musicians show off their virtuosity, and Collins (more than Hackett) proves his worth, characterising the Genesis sound with his jazzy rhythm. The track goes on for up to 10 minutes, alternating beautiful instrumental progressions with stunted sung pieces. Overall, it does not take off, never reaching a climax. "For Absent Friends" (6.5) is an acoustic piece of less than two minutes, beautiful in its singing, but without development. "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" (rating 8) starts with a nice rock rhythm in which Banks and Collins give their best. It lacks a melody, everything is based on a rhythm that continues very pompous; after 5 minutes the song pauses, the rhythm becomes slower and the sound intimate; but then it ends with a pompous ending. It is the best song on the album, but something is missing to consider it an absolute masterpiece. End of side A. "Seven Stones" (rating 7.5/8) is a 5-minute ballad with a good progression in which romantic epic moments and rock moments alternate with many changes of rhythm. "Harold the Barrel" (rated 7+) is a pop song, with the atmosphere of a variety song. It shows Peter Gabriel's ironic/satirical streak. The three-minute song 'Harlequin' is the worst song on the album, being cloying (rating 6+). The last song, 'The Fountain of Salmacis' (rating 7.5) closes the LP. It is the third long song (8 minutes) after Musical Box and Giant Hogweed, and like the other two is pompous and magniloquent. Gabriel's vocals are strangely in the background, Banks' keyboard, as usual, drives the music (again more rhythm than melody); in the instrumental parts the bass solo can be heard. The album is not very inspired: on a melodic level it is definitely inferior to Trespass. It requires very careful listening and on the whole does not linger in the mind, it is too elaborate and forced in many parts. There are good songs, but they are not true masterpieces (not even Musical Box). The technical expertise, especially in the instrumental parts, partly compensates for the poor melodic vein. I think this record is very overrated, probably because it is the first with the line-up most beloved by Genesis fans. In my opinion, it is a transitional album: after the excellent Trespass, a linear, inspired, compact, melodically beautiful album, Nursery Crime tries new paths (which will be developed in the following albums) by focusing less on melody and more on technical rate. Where Trespass is melodically sublime in its epicness, Nursery Crime is very pumped up thanks to frenzied rhythms: therein lies the difference between inspiration and technique. Average song quality: 7.29 Album rating: 7.5. Three stars. Edited by jamesbaldwin - May 12 2023 at 12:32 |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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While another album makes you to see a bit too much of red?
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40102 |
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I Love King Crimson's outstanding debut, but Larks' Tongues in Aspic leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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Anyway, Paul, you're about as much a mainstream man here as I am. Edited by David_D - May 12 2023 at 08:41 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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What about King Crimson? |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20240 |
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I found this exercice ratherv difficult and it's not perfect. I had to magnify the differences between what is commonly agreed as 5 and 3.5 ***** In The Court Of The
Crimson King The Dark Side Of The
Moon Si On Avait .. Birds Of Fire Wish You Were Here Thick as a Brick **** 1/2 Godbluff Selling England By The
Pound Hybris Red Lark's Tongues In
Aspic **** Close To The Edge In A Glass House Animals Foxtrot Storia Di Un Minuto Hot Rats A Kind Of Blue Io sono nato libero Relayer Nursery Cryme Aqualung *** 1/2 A Farewell To Kings Fragile Darwin! H to E, Who Am The
Only One Pawn Hearts Moving Pictures Hemispheres Mirage Moonmadness Per Un Amico Edited by Sean Trane - May 12 2023 at 08:03 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40102 |
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All of them, apart from Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf Generator, Frank Zappa and the four unknown Italian albums.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
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There are no 3 stars albums for me in that list, all of them are 5 or 4 stars.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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Then I'm curious, Paul, how many of the top 30 albums are you fond of?
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20847 |
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Ok here's mine
5 Star King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic 4.66 Star Pink Floyd - Animals King Crimson - Red VDGG - Godbluff Frank Zappa - Hot Rats VDGG - Pawn Hearts Pink Floyd - WYWH Jethro Tull - TAAB PFM - Per Un Amico 4.33 Star Yes - CTTE GG - IAGH KC - ITCOTCK JT - Aqualung Genesis - Foxtrot Harmonium - Les Cinq Saisons Yes - Relayer Yes - Fragile 4 Star Camel - Mirage PF - DSOTM 3.66 Star Banco - Io Sono.. PFM - Storia... Rush - Moving Pictures Genesis - Nursery Crymes Anglagard - Hybris Banco - Darwin 3.33 Star Genesis - SEBTP Camel - Moonmadness Rush - Hemispheres Rush - A Farewell... |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 11621 |
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Even my non-favorites are of high quality at least seven out of ten. No other order than the stars given: ***** Red In The Court Of The Crimson King Pawn Hearts Nursery Cryme Mirage Aqualung Storia Di Un Minuto H to E, Who Am The Only One **** 1/2 Godbluff Moonmadness Lark's Tongues In Aspic **** Per Un Amico Close To The Edge Wish You Were Here Thick as a Brick Foxtrot Selling England By The Pound Fragile Darwin! Hot Rats A Kind Of Blue Io sono nato libero The Dark Side Of The Moon Relayer *** 1/2 Animals A Farewell To Kings Moving Pictures Hybris Hemispheres In A Glass House Si On Avait .. Birds Of Fire
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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So, I should maybe show what I mean. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17511 |
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Hi, I love all these ... equally, and it's really hard to decide. So I ended up with a Baker's Dozen! Only sad thing is that not everything can be included. My other choices to add: AD2: Dance of the Lemmings Ange: Au Dela Du Delire Ryuichi Sakamoto: Beauty Sadistic Mika Band: Hot Menu Egberto Gismonti: No Caipira. (Although many might think this is "jazz" but it really isn't. It's more "classical" than anything, and it is a beauty and then some.)
Edited by moshkito - May 12 2023 at 06:23 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20847 |
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Yeah there's no album's in the top 30 with less than 1000 ratings so there's currently no 'new' albums jumping up into the list with distorted ratings.
Even the Wobbler album from '17 in 31st has 800 ratings which is a good number. The first one with a 'low' number is Gorguts in 64th with 229. In that case the QWR does the job its meant to do dragging down its average rating from 4.39 (which would be good for 18th without weighting) to 4.25. Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - May 12 2023 at 05:52 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43651 |
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it's fine, because the least number of ratings (+ reviews) is 1100 or so. Just have a look at the number of ratings for each album and you'll see.
Edited by Cristi - May 12 2023 at 05:48 |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15121 |
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In my opinion, a good way of re-arranging PA's top 30 would be to put more weight on the number of ratings.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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zwordser
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2008 Location: Southwest US Status: Online Points: 1383 |
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Close to what it is now, but with Relayer at the top, Aqualung at the bottom and maybe Per Un Amico a little higher.
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Z
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35804 |
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It's not about quality to me, it's about taste and qualities -- qualities especially in the case of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue which is out of place in a progressive rock top list whether one loves it or not. I have no problem with rearranging a list to one's taste; not a matter of if its worthy or not generally to me, although not all may be equally relevant to a particular list, and I like some algorithms for calculating the ratings and rankings more than others. And sometimes there has been manipulation when it comes to the lists, but I don't see that in the top 30 now.
Anyway, my top one from the top 30 is Van der Graaf Generator's Pawn Hearts and Miles Davis' Kind of Blue is the only one there that has irked me. I'm happy to have Miles Davis in JRF, I think it's quality jazz album and a real classic of jazz, and I'm fine with people loving it, but that highlights the issue to me of putting whole discographies in one category (and even if one does that, including whole discographies). Also, some relatively recent ones that sometimes quickly get catapulted into top lists have concerned me, but as I said, this is not an issue now with the top 30. |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40102 |
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From PA's Top 30 list, these are the 5-star albums that would be in my Top 30 too:-
Camel - Moonmadness Genesis - Selling England by the Pound King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon YES - The Quest (in place of Close to the Edge)
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