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Kom så Danmark!

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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2022 at 13:20
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

What's interesting to me beyond the numbers is what scenes of progressive and experimental music have been most popular. Looking at PA's Denmark list, there is an eclectic mix of our categories: http://www.progarchives.com/Bands-country.asp?country=56

I like this so-called "progressive" electronic in a retro/ regressive way to my ear Videodrones - Nattens Hævn (CLICK) album from 2017. It's not in PA, nor would I particularly expect it. I guess that title is a nod to Croneberg's Videodrome, which I watched again recently (kind of a good and bad movie to me). The album is evocative of the 80s, and has some synthwave qualities to it to my ear (which often draws on 80s film and culture for inspiration).

I couldn’t get your link to work, but with a little Googling, I found the album. Quite clearly Videodrones are big horror fans. There’s definite nods and hints to the soundtracks of Walter Rizzati and Fabio Frizzi (probably both known best for their collaborations with Lucio Fulci, and Rizzati also for his work with Claudio Simonetti, of Goblin fame). In fact, to keep to the horror theme, you could say the ghosts of Rizzati and Frizzi haunt the works of Videodrones. Away from the Italian horror composers, I detect influence from John Carpenter, too. And if we talking prog, then there’s as much Popul Vuh as there is Goblin. It’s just a really neat sound, that evokes well the sound and feel of early ‘80s horror soundtracks, and perhaps more importantly, without at all sounding kitschy or cliché. This could se easily have been a big heap of cheesy, corny 💩, but instead it’s just really enjoyable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2022 at 22:23

If one looks at RYM's chart for the Danish Progressive Rock all-time, the picture is very clear, and showing very low 
popularity of the Danish post-70's "Progressive Rock proper". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 01:42

So I certainly agree that the thread title, "Kom så Danmark!" ("Come on, Denmark!") is very well-chosen. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 03:09
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

More exactly speaking, the Prog bands, I've listed, are those who at least have made one album which I like. So it can be
easily seen that I'm not impressed by the Danish Prog myself, and I'd say that "Prog proper" hasn't been popular 
in the post-70's Denmark - and thus there's surely some work to do for those who might wish.

I can tell that I've made a try. In 2006, I started to write a book about Progressive Rock in general and in many countries, and I asked three big Danish publishers if they would publish it. They wouldn't, as they reckoned there would not be enough interest and readers for it. Unhappy


Edited by David_D - August 31 2022 at 04:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 06:01
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


If one looks at RYM's chart for the Danish Progressive Rock all-time, the picture is very clear, and showing very low 
popularity of the Danish post-70's "Progressive Rock proper". 

This is not RYM but PA (and we're supposed to know good prog - at least some of us Wink) and if you look at the all-time best ranked Danish albums you will find that Danish prog from the 70's is quite 'improper' compared to what came after.

Danish prog from the 70's is ranked 4th (Culpeper's Orchard), 5th and 9th (both Secret Oyster). Not so 'proper' after all.

1 Royal Hunt 'Paradox'
2 Mantric Muse 'Mantric Muse'
3 Taylor's Universe 'Certain Undiscoveries'
4 Culpeper's Orchard 'Culpeper's Orchard'
5 Secret Oyster 'Straight to the Krankenhaus'
6 Taylor's Universe 'Evidence'
7 Mew 'And the Glass...'
8 Beyond Twilight 'Section X'
9 Secret Oyster 'Secret Oyster'
10 Causa Sui 'Euporie Tide'


Edited by earlyprog - August 31 2022 at 06:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 06:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 06:54

http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=&scountries=56&sminratings=80&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=100&x=78&y=6#list 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 07:11
^why are you manipulating the results to serve your own purpose by setting the minimum number of ratings to 80? Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 08:20
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

If one looks at RYM's chart for the Danish Progressive Rock all-time, the picture is very clear, and showing very low 
popularity of the Danish post-70's "Progressive Rock proper". 

As I see it, PA's chart shows quite the same picture as RYM's:
http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=&scountries=56&sminratings=80&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=100&x=78&y=6#list 

and I've sat the minimum number of ratings to 80, as I'm talking about the popularity and not obscure albums.


Edited by David_D - August 31 2022 at 08:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 09:33
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


If one looks at RYM's chart for the Danish Progressive Rock all-time, the picture is very clear, and showing very low 
popularity of the Danish post-70's "Progressive Rock proper". 

Actually, quite clearly it doesn’t. I’ve just had a look at RYM’s all time chart for studio albums from Danish bands and artists, because it will show the popularity of Danish prog music against other types of music. And what I’ve found is very clearly showing that modern Danish prog is generally rated more highly than ‘70s Danish prog.

But just to show that we shouldn’t be assuming that RYM is always accurate, let me point out that the first prog artist who appears in the Danish all-time chart is Anna Von Haussewolff, who I’m fairly certain is not Danish. But even if we ignore her, there is no ‘70s prog in the top 10. There is one modern prog band represented though, with Wuthering Heights having their first entry in the chart, at number 10.

Just missing out on the top 10 is another modern prog band, Mew’s first entry in the chart at number 11. (Mew being one of the bands in my list from the OP.). The first two ‘70s prog bands make an appearance now, at 14 (Culpeper’s Orchard) and 17 (Secret Oyster).

At 21 and 22, we have Wuthering Heights and Mew again, followed by Royal Hunt at 26. So in the too 10 that’s one modern album and no ‘70s albums. In the top 20, there are two of each era, but the two modern prog albums are ranked higher than the two ‘70s prog albums. In the top 30, there are still only those two ‘70s albums, but now there are five modern prog albums. Let’s keep going, shall we?

Thor’s Hammer comes straight in at 31 to give another album for the oldies. It’s quickly followed by Day of Phoenix and Midnight Sun (35 and 36, respectively). Hot on their heels is Mew with their third album in the chart, at 37, and just nipping in at 40 is Causa Sui. So in the top 40 we have five albums from the ‘70s, and seven modern prog albums

I went all the way to the end of the top 100, and here are the totals:

14 prog albums from the 1970s
24 modern prog albums.

Even not taking into account that the modern albums tend to be ranked higher than the albums from the ‘70s, the modern outnumbers the ‘70s.  Your insistence on looking at only the Danish prog you feel is “proper” ignores what is happening in the real world. If something is near universally agreed upon as prog, it’s equally near meaningless for you to suggest it’s not. By all means say that you’re not a fan of modern Danish prog, but it’s completely inaccurate to suggest that the modern Danish prog scene is not vibrant and well-liked, and probably on a far greater scale than the ‘70s scene ever was, simply because the internet allows a wider audience.

[EDIT] Ok, so now I see you’ve attempted to support your argument by looking at the PA chart, as well. But just as you obviously set the parameters in a narrow way on RYM to create an inaccurate picture, so you have done with PA, too. As for calling albums obscure, I’d be interested to know which they are. If by obscure, you mean unfamiliar to you - well then every single ‘70s Danish band and artist is obscure to me, as I’d not heard of any of them until now. Please don’t obfuscate by conflating what is obscure to you, as being obscure generally,

The number one Danish prog album on PA is Royal Hunt, who are far from obscure. I’ve never listened to them, but I know of them, and have done for years. Back in New Zealand, before the Internet was even a thing, while I was at high school, I knew who Royal Hunt was. On the other side of the globe. With no World Wide Web. Obscure? Not a chance. This is the Royal Hunt album that came in at 26 on RYM - ahead of all but two (and only two) albums from the ‘70s, suggesting that the RYM and PA charts are already somewhat in agreement.

There are only three prog albums from the ‘70s in the PA top ten! Only five in the PA top twenty!
And only Mantric Muse is unfamiliar to me from the 15 modern prog albums in the PA top temerity. Is Mantric Muse obscure? Well, I’ve never heard of them, but they’re ranked number 2, and have 74 ratings (no wonder you had to go to 80 to avoid them!)

Basically, you’re clearly unable to argue your point without creating false evidence to support it.




Edited by nick_h_nz - August 31 2022 at 09:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 09:57
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

If one looks at RYM's chart for the Danish Progressive Rock all-time, the picture is very clear, and showing very low 
popularity of the Danish post-70's "Progressive Rock proper". 

As I see it, PA's chart shows quite the same picture as RYM's:
http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=&scountries=56&sminratings=80&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=100&x=78&y=6#list 

and I've sat the minimum number of ratings to 80, as I'm talking about the popularity and not obscure albums.

You have changed PA's algorithm thereby invalidating your search statistically to accommodate your own needs.

Statistically, PA's algorithm is very sound and incorporating the number of ratings for an album by a weighting factor. You, on the other hand, have cut off about 2/3 of all Danish albums rated on PA without a statistical grounding which is obviously very convenient to you.


Edited by earlyprog - August 31 2022 at 10:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 10:31

Anyway, I appreciate much PA's work for doing the Danish Prog more popular, and I hope even more that it can contribute 
quite a lot as well to increase the popularity of Progressive Rock in Denmark. Smile







Edited by David_D - August 31 2022 at 10:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 12:14
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Anyway, I appreciate much PA's work for doing the Danish Prog more popular, and I hope even more that it can contribute 
quite a lot as well to increase the popularity of Progressive Rock in Denmark. Smile

It is not PA that has made Danish prog more popular. It is the quality of the music. If it were just PA, you wouldn’t expect to see such similarities between RYM and PA. Websites tend to be reactive, rather than proactive - PA considerably more so than RYM. The sheer amount of modern prog from Denmark showing up on PA and RYM charts is because those bands and artists have been so popular among both prog and non-prog fans. They may be obscure to you. They may not be “prog proper” to you. But they are recognised as prog almost universally, and they are enjoyed internationally. And I would bet a large chunk of their fans have never even heard of PA.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 12:27
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Anyway, I appreciate much PA's work for doing the Danish Prog more popular, and I hope even more that it can contribute 
quite a lot as well to increase the popularity of Progressive Rock in Denmark. Smile

Yes, if it wasn't for PA then I wouldn't know Danish prog even existed and Secret Oyster would have remained a hidden pearl just waiting to be discovered. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 15:23
It is curious. When I saw this topic, I couldn’t name a single band except Aqua (Barbie Girl). Found nothing that I’ve listened to on PA. The closest I get is Heilung, that I recently discovered. Their new album, Drif, is great btw. Can’t really call it Danish though, as it’s a German-Danish-Norwegian thing.

I’ve listened to lots of Norwegian and Swedish music, even some Finnish, but Denmark is nowhere to be found.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 16:35
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

When I saw this topic, I couldn’t name a single band except Aqua (Barbie Girl).

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 16:36
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

... if it wasn't for PA then I wouldn't know Danish prog even existed and Secret Oyster would have remained a hidden pearl just waiting to be discovered. Smile

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 16:49
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

I’ve listened to lots of Norwegian and Swedish music, even some Finnish, but Denmark is nowhere to be found.

While I can tell that I find Norwegian for not to talk about Swedish post-70's Prog much better than Danish. Smile




Edited by David_D - August 31 2022 at 17:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2022 at 18:02
I must admit I know very little Danish music that I like. Heilung are great (but rather international than Danish). I also saw a gig of Efterklang together with Under Byen once, the latter apparently not yet named in this thread. Both very good bands, but I wasn't so keen on the vocals.

By the way Under Byen ended their set saying "And now have fun with the other good Danish band!" Tongue


Edited by Lewian - August 31 2022 at 18:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2022 at 02:40

I wrote:

"You would maybe like to be mentioned in "Imaginative album and song titles"? Ermm"

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129532&PN=1
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