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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 13:10
Holy Moly Man !
What an excellent and topical interpretation of a classic Gabriel tune.
My eyes were watering.
Steve, Sundays aren't supposed to be so emotional.
Nice addition to your site. Thumbs UpClap
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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lazland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 13:21
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Holy Moly Man !
What an excellent and topical interpretation of a classic Gabriel tune.
My eyes were watering.
Steve, Sundays aren't supposed to be so emotional.
Nice addition to your site. Thumbs UpClap

Thanks JD. It is a sumptuous version of a true classic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yam yam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2022 at 19:30
Haven't logged in to PA for about nine months, but saw this thread and had a read through it.

With regard to Winter In Eden:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Yes, I think I described them as “symphonic metal”, not in order to start a new sub-genre, but as a descriptor. I think personally they should be on PA and wonder whether they have ever been suggested? Anyhow, it is an album which I think will appeal to all decent prog rock fans, and hopefully my review will bring them some attention.

I remember this band's flirtation with PA very well. They were suggested in June 2011, after the release of their debut album 'Awakening', and some quite lively discussion followed, eventually resulting in an evaluation by the Prog Metal team in August 2014 (based on their first three albums). They were unanimously rejected in pretty quick time in the end though, which was pretty much as expected if you read the comments posted by the various collabs who contributed to the thread.

Haven't listened to their latest album yet, but will do so tomorrow.

Great website you have there Steve btw. I'll be looking into a few more of your recommendations over the coming days. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 00:19
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Haven't logged in to PA for about nine months, but saw this thread and had a read through it.

With regard to Winter In Eden:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Yes, I think I described them as “symphonic metal”, not in order to start a new sub-genre, but as a descriptor. I think personally they should be on PA and wonder whether they have ever been suggested? Anyhow, it is an album which I think will appeal to all decent prog rock fans, and hopefully my review will bring them some attention.

I remember this band's flirtation with PA very well. They were suggested in June 2011, after the release of their debut album 'Awakening', and some quite lively discussion followed, eventually resulting in an evaluation by the Prog Metal team in August 2014 (based on their first three albums). They were unanimously rejected in pretty quick time in the end though, which was pretty much as expected if you read the comments posted by the various collabs who contributed to the thread.

Haven't listened to their latest album yet, but will do so tomorrow.

Great website you have there Steve btw. I'll be looking into a few more of your recommendations over the coming days. Thumbs Up

Hi there David. Really nice to hear from you, and thanks very much re the kind comments on the site.

I think Winter In Eden should be here, and I read the thread you placed a link to just now. Once Ivan got involved, and especially if he got involved with blue and red typo, then that was that, really. That thread really does sum up why I went off to set up my own site, and I should have done it ages ago. In my case, the final example was D’Virgilio, Morse, & Jennings, three pretty famous people in the world of prog, who every single prog music outlet in the world had reviewed, excepting Prog Archives.

I think a lot of people who visit PA looking for new music would love Winter In Eden. I also think a lot would love Moon Halo, who are inexplicably not on the site, and from a PM I know were discussed but not deemed progressive enough.

Anyhow, it is what it is.


Edited by lazland - May 16 2022 at 00:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 00:57
^ Maybe it is time they were resubmitted? There is an entirely new prog metal team now, and we have already reevaluated some previous rejections (and have a couple more on our plate at the moment). A previous rejection certainly doesn’t mean it is impossible for a band to enter PA. It just makes it a lot harder, as it required unanimous approval, rather than majority. (This, to me, is a very stupid rule, if the teams have entirely changed, and/or if a band has released further albums or eps since the rejection. It is a handicap that isn’t fair, in my opinion, and I would much rather see resubmissions be on an even playing field as new submissions.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2022 at 14:33
I will have a think about resubmitting Winter In Eden. Finding the time is the thing for me at the moment.

Anyhow, I have made a change to the site by replacing “Top Ten Albums of the Year” with “Album Reviews by Year”. If you go to that page, you will see the explanation, and I have added the first tranche of 2012 reviews - there are still a fair few to go.

Ale of the week added to the usual place.

Video of the week on the homepage is a version of Gabriel’s Biko, and the best one I have seen at that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 14:47
https://www.facebook.com/fusionmusicfestivals

Steve, if you're interested in getting the word out, it looks like IQ are headlining the Saturday night of Stourport's Fusion next March...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 14:53
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/fusionmusicfestivals

Steve, if you're interested in getting the word out, it looks like IQ are headlining the Saturday night of Stourport's Fusion next March...

Hey Jared. Yes, I will post this in my next update (hopefully in the next couple of days). It looks a fantastic lineup and a bargain for £99. I will have a think about doing this myself. We have caring issues, but my wife is doing a weekend Reiki course with a friend in June whilst I stay at home, so there is credit in the bank for Mr Laz!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2022 at 15:03
^^ they are also threatening to unveil a big name for the Sunday night, too...

yes, I remember you saying about your caring duties, but I thought you may have some proggy friends in South Wales. Notwithstanding, it's great if you can get away for the occasional weekend; we all need/ deserve a break. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 09:43
Updated with new album reviews of Ghost Toast and Pattern Seeking Animals. Simply go to Album Review 2022 Page and click on the links.

New Gigs Section added to Beer & News Page and News of Fusion Festival 2023 lineup added.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 09:57
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Updated with new album reviews of Ghost Toast and Pattern Seeking Animals. Simply go to Album Review 2022 Page and click on the links.

New Gigs Section added to Beer & News Page and News of Fusion Festival 2023 lineup added.

I love Ghost Toast, so went straight to your site to read the review, and found quite a surprise waiting for me! 😱

It is definitely worth seeking out at the very least, the album prior, as the two are designed to be part of one theme.

Because I think it is an album that is very in tune with the times, it is one that I think a lot of people might enjoy, so please excuse me while I link to Steve’s review, and the Bandcamp page:



(And for anyone who might care, my own reviews for the diptych.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 10:06
^^ Oh dear Steve... so you won't be buying a PSA Tour T-shirt anytime soon, then??  LOL

I have a soft spot for both SB and Transatlantic, a little more hit and miss with TFK (The likes of FlowerPower bored me sh*tless back in the day) but I've not really tried PSA yet beyond a few Yt clips. I think they've just been pushed further to the back of the queue now! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 11:57
I love PSA...but they may be too AOR-ish for many PAers, but that hits my sweet spot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 12:53
Right, some fantastic posts here, so.

Nick’s review of Ghost Toast is what attracted me to the band, and it really is an album for our times. Exceptional music and an exceptional review from Nick which got me there.

As for PSA, I absolutely get why people like it. I like commercial prog, and should perhaps put some quotes in on that description, but I like, more than anything else, something different, something new. Scott referred to AOR, which is a very wide ranging description of music, and I love a lot of stuff which is disparaged by “purists”, but I do want it to be original, and that was my issue with PSA. It wasn’t.

I must also admit to becoming very sceptical of recent TFK, Transatlantic, and Beard stuff because there is nothing excitingly new there. I crave something which takes me somewhere else, and on that basis Ghost Toast this week wins hands down. I might add, BTW, that my review this forthcoming weekend of Lighthouse Sparrows album will be equally praising. It is a wonderfully original album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 13:09
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I must also admit to becoming very sceptical of recent TFK, Transatlantic, and Beard stuff because there is nothing excitingly new there. I crave something which takes me somewhere else, and on that basis Ghost Toast this week wins hands down.

I get where you are coming from Steve but on the other side of the coin, is it fair to expect to expect bands of considerable longevity to constantly moving forward, reinventing themselves and saying something new with each album? As an example, many have derided Dream Theater for trotting out only a slight variation on a well worn formula, until the released the Astonishing... which frankly wasn't. Ultimately, these bands have essentially the same personnel and they know what works for them and their fan base and a change of direction can come at a reputational risk. I remember seeing SB on their first mini UK tour supporting Day For Night and they really were revelatory, but after 13 studios, they aren't going to deviate from their sound.

Maybe Ghost Toast do win hands down (you can raise a glass to this weeks toast!) but after 10 studio albums, will they still be taking you somewhere else??  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 13:34
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I must also admit to becoming very sceptical of recent TFK, Transatlantic, and Beard stuff because there is nothing excitingly new there. I crave something which takes me somewhere else, and on that basis Ghost Toast this week wins hands down.

I get where you are coming from Steve but on the other side of the coin, is it fair to expect to expect bands of considerable longevity to constantly moving forward, reinventing themselves and saying something new with each album? As an example, many have derided Dream Theater for trotting out only a slight variation on a well worn formula, until the released the Astonishing... which frankly wasn't. Ultimately, these bands have essentially the same personnel and they know what works for them and their fan base and a change of direction can come at a reputational risk. I remember seeing SB on their first mini UK tour supporting Day For Night and they really were revelatory, but after 13 studios, they aren't going to deviate from their sound.

Maybe Ghost Toast do win hands down (you can raise a glass to this weeks toast!) but after 10 studio albums, will they still be taking you somewhere else??  

I think this is a really interesting question, and it goes to the heart of peoples love of music and tastes down the ages.

As an example, I will discuss Genesis, universally appreciated as one of the classics of prog rock bands in the 70’s, but derided by many so called prog fans in the 80’s onwards as having “sold out”.

Gabriel left Genesis in 1975 after The Lamb. When he returned to recording studio albums and new music, it sounded bugger all like his parent band. Especially after Melt. 

Genesis deliberately released a couple of symphonic albums in ATOTT and WAW. When Hackett left, they again deliberately released albums which were seriously divergent from those. Whether you liked those albums, or not, is somewhat besides the point. The point is that what was released was different. If Genesis had released ten albums sounding exactly like Foxtrot or SEBTP, or The Lamb, I would have grown very bored very quickly. If Ghost Toast do something similar, i.e. do something different, then the Laz glass will be raised as high as it is tonight. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 14:03
I can imagine we can all agree that if Gabriel hadn't have left after Lamb, then the next album wouldn't have sounded like ATOTT, and again if Hackett had stayed, ATTWT would have sounded more complex and multi-layered, whilst they wouldn't have released anything like Duke. Of course, we are entering glorious 'what if' territory where we can only speculate. What we can say is that Genesis, like most other bands after a significant departure, adjusted their sound to their strengths whilst maintaining their artistic integrity.

What I find interesting is Genesis were lauded for evolving their sound (even if it was eventually in a direction disapproved of by most prog fans) rather than treading water, but were they right to keep the name? I'm just asking an open question here because if a band evolves too much, are they still the same band or become a different entity? The band which released Trespass was quite different artistically from the one which released Abacab. Which begs the question, should Yes have changed their name to Cinema when they released 90125?

To come back to PSA then, I'm guessing it became a side project for a number of SB band members, because the sound was sufficiently removed from the material on Noise Floor, so they came up with a new name. But, what if they had released a couple of albums under the name of Spock's which showed a clear evolution toward the sound of PSA... would you have praised them then for moving forward and not just staying content with churning out similar albums?

Just something for you to ponder.. Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 14:19
Well, this evolves the discussion, in the finest tradition of prog Smile

As an example about bands keeping their name, I will example Marillion as opposed to Genesis. Many of us, and I am one, thought that they should have changed their name when Fish left and h joined. The band themselves thought seriously about it, but egos came into play, and I have referenced before Q magazine when they reviewed Afraid of Sunlight stating that if any band aside from the name Marillion had released it, it would have been a worldwide smash. Unfortunately, names matter in our commercial world.

Yes most certainly should have retained the Cinema label when 90125 was released. I loved that album, and still do. It was such a radical departure from “traditional” Yes, and was all the better for it. My problem with Yes in recent years post Anderson is that they have tried to recreate a sound and feel that cannot be recreated. Its time has passed.

Having said all of this, I do think that there is a linear between Trespass and Abacab, and Yes and 90125. They are the same bands, but they have progressed. They have tried something new with each release, that don’t want to stand still. They don’t want to release an album which sounds anything like themselves.


Edited by lazland - May 19 2022 at 14:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 14:50
A very interesting post, Steve. Yes I agree that names do matter in the commercial world of music, whatever level you are at. I can think of a metal band who released two very popular melodic albums with one singer before going onto a hiatus, then when they reformed, they changed their style quite considerably to suit the darker, harsher vocals of their new frontman, Again, it was suggested that they really should have changed their name, except that the record company knew they would sell more albums and get bigger festival billings with the original one, irrespective of the nature of the material... but your point about Marillion has made me digress.

Back on topic, I think at heart every musician, certainly within the field of progressive rock, wants to develop and experiment with different sounds and styles, rather than rehashing the same thing for a decade; most barely get paid enough to make a living out of the music they make these days, so they want to fulfil themselves through artistic expression, The question is how to do so? Some will wish to work with a wide variety of musicians, but others have a closer circle of friends with which to do so.

This is where we can judge them by double standards, where we might criticise artists who may stay part of the main band which remains essentially consistent to it's core fans and avoids pushing the envelope. In this case, whilst setting up side projects to fulfil this need. On the other hand we applaud others who try to push their main vehicle through an evolution of styles and experimentation?

Again, just a thought...


Edited by Jared - May 19 2022 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2022 at 15:26
If bands like Yes, Genesis, or King Crimson (not to mention most other bands) changed their names every time a band member left, I suspect our database would have at least 5 times the number of bands that we already have listed.  It is always an interesting discussion though.  At what point is the band no longer "that" band. 
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