Modern Prog: First Album

Psychedelic Paul wrote: There's no accounting for taste, but I seem to have an annoying habit of loving the albums that others love to hate. For instance... Camel - The Single Factor ELP - Love Beach YES - Heaven & Earth ...to name just three, but conversely, I dislike some of the albums that others here love, including... Gentle Giant - In a Glass House King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic VDGG - Pawn Hearts ...so my opinion doesn't count for very much here.

Edited by Necrotica - April 17 2022 at 22:32

I'm fine with the negative reviews, Paul. It's more that you seem to be repeating yourself and don't seem to be taking on board what others have said when you say the same kind of things again and again. Makes trying to have a meaningful exchange of ideas with any sense of depth and breadth seem pointless. I think it may in part be the difference between a so-called conservative and liberal mindset (we didn't make much headway on politics either even though we agree on some things despite you seemingly being a Trump fan and me not).

EDIT: Actually, this "If these are Swans, then this tuneless mess of an album is the ugly duckling that nobody wants, so it's no surprise that no one voted for Swans in the poll. Remind me not to include any Avant Prog in future polls " was annoying because it's been mentioned again and again that the band is diverse, that you wouldn't enjoy where it starts, what you might enjoy and I haven't seen anyone even call it avant prog. Tarring a whole genre by one album that I haven't seen called avant prog is ridiculous. It is like you are not listening and considering how others respond. You tend to glibly deflect, move the goalposts and miss the point.


If I had written that review, I would have said something like "Well, I was warned but still went ahead and listened anyway, and I should have heeded the warning. I found this as brutal as could be expected. I have been told they I might enjoy later albums more, it couldn't be less methinks. I will not pass judgement until I have heard more of the discography as I have ben told how diverse it is and liked a song that was shared with me before which was very different stylistically".

Edited by Logan - April 16 2022 at 11:01

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but here goes...

I would hope that Paul knows that I like him and have appreciated his presence. I have defended many of his notions and genre placements (for instance, that I think Kraan absolutely can be considered to be in the Krautrock universe). I like to judge each argument on its own merits, and not based on who is making it. I am genuinely interested in what Paul thinks about many things. I don't tend to want to waste words on people I don't like or appreciate.

Psychedelic Paul wrote: ^ Don't worry, I'll simply post my ratings collectively for all 25 albums from now on, without offering comment, which will save me a lot of precious time. In other words, I'll make just one collective post for all 25 featured  albums instead of making 25 separate posts for each individual album.

^ I prefer the comments. I'm much more interested in reading people's thoughts than seeing their ratings (I don't find ratings that interesting or conversation worthy generally). My issue was that your comments, not just the review, don't seem to take past conversations into consideration, so it's liking we are not making any progress in conversation. I love a good debate, but I like dialectic best -- when there is a synthesis of ideas.

I have no problem with you writing honest critical reviews, and like to see that insight from other perspectives, but this "Remind me not to include any Avant Prog in future polls" was actually not very considerate or charitable to those who took the time to point you in a more positive direction and tried to present a more nuanced view.

One can be critical while not seeming mean-spirited, tactless, and while not making dubious conclusions and claims. On the other hand, tactless can be a lot more fun. As long as the reasoning is sound based on what info one has and one has done some research work and considered different perspectives....

Edited by Logan - April 16 2022 at 12:18

Jared wrote: I know I'm going to regret asking this, but here goes... This poll was issued on 1st January... when do you anticipate the next instalment will be issued? How many years is it likely to take before we'll get to vote on Marillion's latest? Why do you feel it important to listen to and 'review' all 25 albums before setting up the next poll?

Logan wrote: I would hope that Paul knows that I like him and have appreciated his presence. I have defended many of his notions and genre placements (for instance, that I think Kraan absolutely can be considered to be in the Krautrock universe). I like to judge each argument on its own merits, and not based on who is making it. I am genuinely interested in what Paul thinks about many things. I don't tend to want to waste words on people I don't like or appreciate. Psychedelic Paul wrote: ^ Don't worry, I'll simply post my ratings collectively for all 25 albums from now on, without offering comment, which will save me a lot of precious time. In other words, I'll make just one collective post for all 25 featured  albums instead of making 25 separate posts for each individual album.  ^ I prefer the comments. I'm much more interested in reading people's thoughts than seeing their ratings (I don't find ratings that interesting or conversation worthy generally). My issue was that your comments, not just the review, don't seem to take past conversations into consideration, so it's liking we are not making any progress in conversation. I love a good debate, but I like dialectic best -- when there is a synthesis of ideas. I have no problem with you writing honest critical reviews, and like to see that insight from other perspectives, but this "Remind me not to include any Avant Prog in future polls" was actually not very considerate or charitable to those who took the time to point you in a more positive direction and tried to present a more nuanced view. One can be critical while not seeming mean-spirited, tactless, and while not making dubious conclusions and claims. On the other hand, tactless can be a lot more fun. As long as the reasoning is sound based on what info one has and one has done some research work and considered different perspectives....

Try rude and ill-informed

Psychedelic Paul wrote: Grumpyprogfan wrote: Why does no one have anything positive to say about Paul? Without Paul, these forums would be dull, imo. What would Cristi do? Paul, we have different tastes in music but that's how it should be. Keep on truckin' dude. Thanks! It's never a dull moment here and what would I do without Cristi?

Well Paul did have some momentum by doing the 11 Modern prog Polls (as he mentioned) posting those topics every few days, but this has turned into more of a kind of  youtube playlist for albums blog as he goes through them.  

Psychedelic Paul wrote: You may have missed my earlier reply where I mentioned that the first eleven Modern Prog polls are already posted, which Logan has helpfully provided links to above.