Symphonic Metal Heaven

Not symphonic metal at all. 

In that case, maybe I should have posted the Jesus Christ video in the Christian Metal section. 

Blimey, he's changed since his days as The Doctor.

While it is true that just because a band have a song called Jesus Christ, it does not mean they are a Christian metal band, in this case they are. Saviour Machine are a Christian metal band, that play Christian metal music. Sometimes that metal is gothic, and sometimes is is symphonic, but it’s always Christian, simply because that’s who the band are.

Conversely while it is true that just because a band have a song called Lucifer For Now, it does not mean they are not a Christian rock band. But For Love Not Lisa are a Christian rock band with a song titled just that.

It is up to a band to identify themselves and their music as Christian, or not. Creed’s music was often obviously and overtly Christian in its lyrical content and allusions, but the band were insistent that they were not a Christian rock band, and didn’t associate themselves with other bands who did consider themselves Christian rock or metal.

Saviour Machine and For Love Not Lisa, on the other hand, identified as Christian metal and rock, and didn’t shy away from that association at all. If anything, they embraced it.

Similarly, Floodline, who sound like Alice In Chains meets Opeth (and brilliantly so) identified as Christian metal. They sounded nothing like Saviour Machine, because they played completely different styles of metal - but both considered themselves Christian metal. So, regardless of whether or not you consider the song Jesus Christ to be Christian metal is kind of irrelevant. The band themselves would agree with Paul’s assessment that their music is Christian metal.

No, in numerous interviews he has said how much he dislikes the term “white metal” (which was often used pejoratively for Christian metal), or the idea that Christian metal is just one thing, and how Stryper is so often given as an example of Christian metal. Eric’s idea of Christian metal is closer to my own, and even (shock horror) that of Wikipedia. That is to say that there is no one thing called Christian Metal. Christian metal bands exist in most sub-genres of heavy metal music, and the only common link among most Christian metal bands are the lyrics.

Eric has said often that he and his brother were unaware there even were Christian metal bands, and that they were just passionate about making music that pulled together their musical and spiritual influences.  He has also said that he is a man of faith, but not religious. So he makes the subtle distinction between Christian Metal, and Christian metal. To use a PA analogy, this is a little like differentiating between Prog Metal and prog metal. The bands who are in PA under Tech/Extreme or Experimental/Post are still prog metal, but they are not Prog Metal. Eric has never denied being Christian metal, but doesn’t like the stereotype many people have of Christian Metal, because it is so much more than bands like Stryper.

Not quite, no. They are listed on Wiki as “symphonic gothic metal”, “neoclassical metal” and “Christian metal”, rather than the conflation of all three that Paul has given. 😄

I don’t really have a problem with Saviour Machine being listed as Symphonic, even if it’s not their defining feature. They are certainly more symphonic than some bands Paul has listed as being part of his symphonic heaven!

That said, pretty much everything Paul lists does make sense if he uses Wikipedia as his main way of finding bands for the genres he chooses. Wikipedia recognises that symphonic metal can mean different things depending on what type of metal the symphonic component is incorporated into, so defines symphonic metal sub-genres such as symphonic gothic (eg Saviour Machine), symphonic black, symphonic death, and symphonic power. It also over-emphasises links between symphonic metal, melodic death metal, neoclassical metal, power metal and prog metal. Looked at this way, Paul’s symphonic heaven makes way more sense. Nonsense, still, but with the sense behind the nonsense becomes more obvious.

I don’t think you sound like a jerk. But I often think you don’t give Paul enough credit. I feel the same way about some others, when it comes to Pedro. I don’t always agree with Paul and Pedro (in fact I am sure I disagree with far more of their views than I agree with), but both have strong views that are often counter to many here, and because of the intransigent manner in which they introduced them, they tend to bring derision that is sometimes unfair.

I don’t think your definition of symphonic is any more right than Paul’s on this forum. If we were talking about prog, then that might be different. (There is a lot more I consider prog than what is on PA, but because of where we are, I would not attempt to portray it as such.) But I can totally get where Paul is coming from, even if I don’t agree with it.