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Topic ClosedRussia/Ukraine tensions - Any concern?
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 06:33
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:




Thanks for sharing the article, but I believe that there are many parts of it that I think I disagree with Hill on, such as the final part about might makes right. That truly never went away with the end of World War 2. 

World War 3 is of course on the horizon and it will be bloodier than World War 2.

I don't think it was her intention to say that 'might makes right' ever went away...  what has is what she called the 'rules based system'.  Say what you will be our own foreign adventures... but they were not taken unilaterally without engagement with the world community. One to remove a regime that directly attacked our nation... and another under the false pretext of having WMD's but ..well.. also was a murderous regime who had a thing for gassing and murdering their own people. The integrity and moral standing of this country suffered a blow to its standing that it might never recover from because of that but the point stands that both still went through the rules system she talked of. 

completely different obviously from Russia has done here with the Ukraine.  Dispensing completely with any rules even an attempt of false pretext to invasion.. and a pure and simple attempt to expand its borders and subjugate a free, peaceful (that is...when not fighting Russian backed separatists trying to take its lands and redefine borders agreed to by the Russians in exchange for giving up its nuclear weapons), and democratically elected government. Apples and Oranges to the sins this country has committed post Cold War

I won't comment much here, but our government disregards the "rules based system" all the time if it is suitable for them. The hypocrisy is so obvious to any observer from a million miles away

this is not the place or time to play whataboutism... you're better than that anyway.  My distinct and profound hatred of the Republican Party began with being labeled a traitor to my country by Cheney and his ilk because I... as a combat veteran of the 1st war...  thought my country was wrong in invading Iraq a 2nd time. I have mental scars of that experience Flossy that I will carry to my grave of what I saw.. and did.  

and are you... like Eugene making any kind of comparison to what we did in Iraq to what the Russians are doing now in Ukraine??? Apples and Oranges... end of discussion


Edited by micky - March 01 2022 at 06:33
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Points: 10680 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 06:48
News from friends and extended family in Ukraine:
Cousins in Kyiv have been located. They left Kyiv but they have not left Ukraine. They want to stay and fight. Friends in Lviv are still in Lviv. They also have chosen to stay and fight.
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 06:57
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

News from friends and extended family in Ukraine:
Cousins in Kyiv have been located. They left Kyiv but they have not left Ukraine. They want to stay and fight. Friends in Lviv are still in Lviv. They also have chosen to stay and fight.

ClapHeart
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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:04
Is Breitbart News any credible? I'm really clueless. Please fill me in. 

"Turkey changed its view of Russia’s attack on Ukraine over the weekend, declaring the assault is “officially a war” and promising to limit the number of Russian warships that can pass through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits to enter the Black Sea." The link: https://twitter.com/BreitbartNews/status/1498643856593674248
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:11
not exactly the best place for unbiased news hahah but with this it is what it is. Reporting the news.. not spinning it or opining it.

Turkey is fulfilling its obligations on a treaty from 1936 that lets it restrict passage through those straights in 'war'. Which was the important distinction Turkey made as opposed to calling it a regional conflict.. or special operation.
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Points: 10680 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:16
Re Archisorcerus:
Breitbart is usually a terrible source for news, very biased and misleading. I'm surprised that the excerpt you posted is better than what they usually post.
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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:17
^ Thanks Michael. We all missed you, I believe. (I used to be Shadowyzard, you must remember me. Lol.) Thumbs Up
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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:18
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Re Archisorcerus:
Breitbart is usually a terrible source for news, very biased and misleading. I'm surprised that the excerpt you posted is better than what they usually post.

Thank you very much.
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Points: 10680 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:21
^ You are welcome my friend. So glad to hear Turkey is stepping up. Kudos to Turkey!
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:23
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ Thanks Michael. We all missed you, I believe. (I used to be Shadowyzard, you must remember me. Lol.) Thumbs Up

oh I definitely do Heart... and thought that might have been you under a new screenie
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:28
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ You are welcome my friend. So glad to hear Turkey is stepping up. Kudos to Turkey!

let's not forget the others that Russia has pushed off of the straddling fences

best quote I've seen so far...

“Vladimir Putin has killed Swedish and Swiss neutrality and German and Finnish pacifism in a single weekend.” 
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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:28
^ BeerHeart Lol. This is a faceless G... faceless Go... faceless Googlesearch product. Wink 
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Points: 10680 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 07:58
More than 6,000 Russian people have been detained for protesting the war. Kudos to the Russian people, they are the key to ending this madness.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:07
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

News from friends and extended family in Ukraine:
Cousins in Kyiv have been located. They left Kyiv but they have not left Ukraine. They want to stay and fight. Friends in Lviv are still in Lviv. They also have chosen to stay and fight.
Great at News John. Let's keeep praying it stays that way.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:11
The Russian people will help? Perhaps not. Putin has drilled into the masses that NATO is an existential threat to the country, and many belive Putin when he says he will make Russia great again. Reminds you of someone else, doesn’t it?

Edited by SteveG - March 01 2022 at 08:13
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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:19
^ Steve. I believe there a many, many many, many many many Russian people that HATE Putin. The majority of them cannot be that brave to make it open. It is like, I have many atheist friends that cannot declare it. They trust my secretive nature, and confess it. I'm a bit open in almost everything, but one cannot expect that from everyone else. I figure challenging Putin is not easy in Russia. He seems like a daredevil, and can do anything not to lose his position and power. But protests can be useful. He is a human being, after all. He would be affected, or "tamed" to an unknown extent.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:38
Very well. I have to defer to your superior knowledge on these things, being so close to Russia and having more contact with its citizens.
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:38
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The Russian people will help? Perhaps not. Putin has drilled into the masses that NATO is an existential threat to the country, and many belive Putin when he says he will make Russia great again. Reminds you of someone else, doesn’t it?

if the ruble becomes as valuable as toilet paper??  Might be race between the Oligarchs and common man to hang Putin high.

the shame is that many.. many Ukrainians will have to die... to sacrifice themselves to allow the time for sanctions to really hit home and realization they do not end until Russia is completely out of Ukraine and international borders reestablished. In short.. this is a war Russia can not win. Putin will not survive (politically or otherwise). Just a question of when and who by he is turned upon

While what we've seen hurts.. and hurts badly.. it was the result of 4-5 months of behind the scenes and secret negotations. US intelligence nailed this back in October. That is why Biden let slip about Nord Stream before even the invasion started...  and people were like.. what can we do.  It was already settled. I don't think Putin thought we could .. much less that quickly .. heal the divisions and economic self interests that divided many European nations.  They were obviously caught flat footed with their years long attempt to make themselves sanctions proofed in ruins.

and it seems the 2nd shoe is in the works to drop.. the complete cutting off of Russia economically.  Italy which is the leading importer of Russian energy as at the moment moving moves to adapt to the cutting off of Russian energy.

how long it takes for the biillionaires to toss him out of window and end this senseless war?  Who knows
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:42
Putin is finished. 
Just a matter of time. 

The problem is how many lives will be lost before he topples. 

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Points: 2707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2022 at 08:45
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Very well. I have to defer to your superior knowledge on these things, being so close to Russia and having more contact with its citizens.

Our culture gets the Russian culture better. You might know that we were very close with Russia, before America's cultural influence manifested itself. Also the "freedom" thing is a very convulated thing. Your (America's) unseen red line is a straight and fixed one. And it seems like impossible to cross that with "speech", unless you're an evil genius with a godly charisma. Whilst, here it is quite complex and fragile. Anyway, thank you. Smile

Edited by Archisorcerus - March 01 2022 at 08:47
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