YES Ice Bridge

twosteves wrote: ^correct they did add an established guitarist and respected drummer in the 70's to replace Hackett and Phil--both of them were well respected musicians --but who never became official members---Yes never did this late in their career they let anyone in---CAS was the only time they let an outsider into their band---and the results didn't work.

What's your point here? Genesis and Yes are very different bands, and they have taken radically different approaches over the years. They cannot be straightforwardly compared to each other. Yes has always had a revolving cast of members, rarely staying the same for more than a couple of albums. Still, even in the case of Genesis, both Collins and Hackett were once "outsiders" as they are not original members.

Intriguing comment, and I tend to agree!  Which members of Yes do you consider to have been "mediocre?" 

I'll start = Benoit David.

I'm only a hobby musician and don't profess to be a professional.  I warm up with Yes/Chris Squire on bass however.  Very challenging to play.

However, the output of Yes has been putrid for ages, something they are doing is wrong.  There is better talent available than David, Davidson, Downes etc. but Howe won't hear of it.  

I know it is maybe more interesting to talk about Genesis than about Yes these days, but let's not make this a Genesis thread. Regarding playing with "other" musicians, you all know that Yes played with themselves - I mean, with Yes. I'm referring to the Union tour... They also played with a symphonic orchestra during the Symphonic Live tour (one of their best live shows I've witnessed!)...

Personally, I think that the fact that a band is interpreting (or reinterpreting) their music with other musicians is not an issue; the quality of the performance is, though.

False, there are plenty of websites dedicated to finding out where samples come from, such as the sample of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight that provides the basic backing track to OutKast's Spottieottiedopaliscious.  I've also seen plenty of YouTube videos and Spotify playlists comparing songs that sue samples with the songs they sample. People do care where the samples come from.

I definitely disagree with Hrychu here. Ice Bridge doesn't sample that theme song. Sampling involves taking a clip of the original recording and playing that exact clip as a part of your new song. Check out Kanye West's Power for a familiar example.  If I were to spin this Ice Bridge case more positively, I'd say Geoff Downes is quoting that other song. Quoting is a long tradition going back to jazz and improvised soloing. Rather than taking the actual recording of another song and inserting it (often manipulated) into your new song, quoting involves playing a lick or a riff from another song on your own instrument in the context of your new song. Usually quotation isn't used to form the backbone of the song, but rather for melodic intrigue on top of an original song structure.  Since Ice Bridge seems to use its quote for more than a bit of melodic interest, and especially since Downes is denying having plagiarized the other song, I'm going to guess it's more a case of unconscious copying. Downes was probably exposed to the song, even briefly, back when that TV show was airing, and the melody must have embedded itself somewhere deep in his memory without him remembering where it came from. Is that plagiarism? Maybe technically, but it doesn't have the same malicious intent that plagiarism does. 

Anyway it's not a sample, sorry for the rant.