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UEFA Euro 2020 Football Championship

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Poll Question: Which team do you support?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
0 [0.00%]
2 [6.25%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
2 [6.25%]
7 [21.88%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
2 [6.25%]
1 [3.13%]
2 [6.25%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
4 [12.50%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [3.13%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [3.13%]
1 [3.13%]
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Cactus Choir View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cactus Choir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 04:46
Wenger would bring plenty of experience, but doesn't he tend to be methodical and conservative like Southgate? He could do with someone to counter his safety first approach in big games and suggest the right time to gamble. He should have brought on the rapid Sancho and Rashford at half-time in extra-time against Italy as it would have warmed them up for the penalties and they could have run at the ageing Bonucci and Chiellini and maybe even won it. I'm struggling to think of who this reckless 'gremlin' figure sitting on Southgate's shoulder should be though. I might be available for Qatar! Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 04:46
I would certainly take Wenger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 04:48
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

they could have run at the ageing Bonucci and Chiellini and maybe even won it.
Saka tried that and nearly got throttled with his own shirt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cactus Choir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 05:06
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

they could have run at the ageing Bonucci and Chiellini and maybe even won it.
Saka tried that and nearly got throttled with his own shirt.


True, but they were both on yellow cards so would have walked if there were any further attempts at strangulation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 07:30
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

they could have run at the ageing Bonucci and Chiellini and maybe even won it.
Saka tried that and nearly got throttled with his own shirt.


True, but they were both on yellow cards so would have walked if there were any further attempts at strangulation.

Hi,

That was something that bothered me ... I think that Italy ended with 5 yellow cards to 2 for England ... which suggests that Italy kinda manhandled the English a lot, and forced them (or intimidated them) out of their game.

I wish the English had pushed even more to get more cards and a red on the Italians ... it would have prevented the crap shoot, I bet!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 07:45
The Italians are masters of picking up yellows but not picking up reds. I didn't see it as the Italians bullying the English in the game. The England team became more passive through the course of the game. They needed to up the pressure on Italy when they lost possession and speed up attacks.

At the end of the day Italy looked a very good team throughout the tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 07:47
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Italians are masters of picking up yellows but not picking up reds. I didn't see it as the Italians bullying the English in the game. The England team became more passive through the course of the game. They needed to up the pressure on Italy when they lost possession and speed up attacks.

At the end of the day Italy looked a very good team throughout the tournament.

Hi,

I kinda thought they were better coached and Mancini had a better idea of what to do than Southgate. Mancini "knew" the English game. I doubt that Southgate "knew" the Italian game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 07:50
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

The Italians are masters of picking up yellows but not picking up reds. 
They definitely did that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 07:50
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ Moshkito. I, as an atheist, use phrases like "rest in peace", "God knows" etc. too. You are the one, and a clinically obsessive one, who is taking such things AND yourself too seriously. I can say "black actor", whenever I see fit. You can state your stance and/or viewpoint and ctiricise me. BUT, do it once. Get over your obsessions.

Hi,

I wish I had "obsessions" other than watching a lot of foreign film and listening to a lot of music. As for your comment, it seems that you have an obsession about putting some one down. I don't enjoy doing something like that and I did not accuse anyone in the posting. I merely stated what I thought we might appreciate ... that we are all human.

I guess that's an obsession! Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 08:30
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

As for your comment, it seems that you have an obsession about putting some one down. I don't enjoy doing something like that and I did not accuse anyone in the posting.


Don't mess with my memory. You'll lose. You either forget your past, or are faking it. Anyway, I'll not bother. If you were the world, I'd be the most blissful ignorant being in it. Better to know NOTHING about you.

Edited by Shadowyzard - July 14 2021 at 08:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2021 at 14:50
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

...
Yes I'm sure - had Jean (a respected member of the forum) taken the time to qualify that single sentence then myself and others maybe wouldn't have interpreted it in such a negative way.

Hi,

I'm just disappointed all around. First by the comment, and then by the reactions. Both are not quite my idea of how we can solve the issue and help each other better.

I have for over 50 years in film and theater, never used a line for separating actors and actresses and said so in a recent comment about your favorite _____ actor. To me, they are all actors and all of them deserve some serious consideration, that for all intents and purposes are not getting.

I did not take, in the 80' at UCSB a course in "Black Film History" because I did not like the differing idea of not believing that they did not deserve the same cultural respect as anyone else, and even had a talk with the instructor about it. He agreed, but he said, what we gonna do? Let all these films, theater and music die?

I went out and bought the 3 books for the class, I still have them, and I love them. The respect and care for the actors and actresses is immense, and the history has been that they were not exactly given a proper chance given the state of ownership by the big name movie studios in America of all the film showing houses, leaving these "lesser" films to students in schools in California (all of the UC system had those courses then, specially Berkeley and Stanford!) and to film showcases as a Festival. AND, to this day, the work of many of these fine people is still left behind and not reviewed even in places like USA TODAY or any publication, which is sad all around. 

It is said that this is a case for "education" and their leaders, but I can't help thinking that those leaders have failed to remove the demarcation line about people. We all have 2 arms, 2 legs, and so on, and to differentiate in any other way is very sad indeed. In fact, a lot of my tastes in music go way back, to even music from other cultures and people, a true universal and creative effort about these things.

I'm not sure, or convinced that things are too different in Europe, and specially Germany, however, I look forward to things improving in that area for everyone.

FOR ME, PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, IS NOT ABOUT COLOR AND OUR DIFFERENCES. IT HAS TO BE ABOUT THE MUSIC ONLY AND NOTHING BUT THE MUSIC. AND IN SPORT THE SAME THING. THE MENTIONING OR SEPARATION OF THE FOLKS INVOLVED IS NOT RIGHT AND INAPPROPRIATE AND ONLY SHOWS HOW WE THINK ONE GROUP IS SUPERIOR TO THE OTHER AND OTHER UNSAVORY IDEAS AND SITUATIONS.

I'm not sure that "social media" can solve this. The only way we can do this is to look at the mirror and realize that we are all pretty much the same. And while I think the ladies have a right to their opinions, i tend to think that NONE of their postings over the years have shown a lack of sensitivity or appreciation for a lot of different music, however, (with that said), I would have wished that the statement was worded differently in order to prevent the sad result that we got here on PA.

PA is not the place for that discussion. I WOULD PREFER THAT WE LEAD IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. We have been, and are (above all) about music and the people that create it, and we don't look at Jimi, or many others as a person of color and we shouldn't do the same for someone that missed a penalty, something that has happened many times to the 2 Englishmen that scored their penalties, and there would have been no guarantees that any others would have fared any better. The GK for Italy had done his homework, was the main issue, and as such was able to help his team better. 

Please all ... apologize and move on. We must not create barriers and lines about people and specially (in our case) about the music! Or indeed, in sport!


I'm not sure what all of that has got to do with the price of fish, but do you really have to jump on people's comments and pontificate like like a school teacher assessing a fourth former's history assignment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2021 at 16:17
But he never calls out anyone, didn't you know?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 01:07
^Oh i know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 09:39
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

England just can't win at penalty shootouts. interestingly all black English players who partook in the shootout failed

I am disgusted and disappointed that you could make such an insensitive and crass remark.

Pretty sure Jean didn't mean it in the way you think, but I can see why it might be misconstrued and I'm not really sure what point she was trying to make. 

the point I was trying to make is that they were under an extra pressure, as the after-match reactions from some "fans" who reacted in ways that can only be called racist sadly showed. they were probably very well aware that things like these would happen if they failed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 09:49
100% agree, but given they are professional athletes they are likely highly confident in their abilities and capable of focusing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 10:21
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

England just can't win at penalty shootouts. interestingly all black English players who partook in the shootout failed

I am disgusted and disappointed that you could make such an insensitive and crass remark.

Pretty sure Jean didn't mean it in the way you think, but I can see why it might be misconstrued and I'm not really sure what point she was trying to make. 

the point I was trying to make is that they were under an extra pressure, as the after-match reactions from some "fans" who reacted in ways that can only be called racist sadly showed. they were probably very well aware that things like these would happen if they failed


I'm sorry but I still fail to see what their skin colour or ethnicity has got to do with anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 10:30
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:


I'm sorry but I still fail to see what their skin colour or ethnicity has got to do with anything.

Because as black players they get a whole lot of racist abuse for perceived failures much more that their white counterparts are not subjected to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldJean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 11:52
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:


I'm sorry but I still fail to see what their skin colour or ethnicity has got to do with anything.

Because as black players they get a whole lot of racist abuse for perceived failures much more that their white counterparts are not subjected to.

exactly, and that was the point I wanted to make


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 12:45
^ Yeah lovely - I'd not thought of that aspect of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 13:30
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

England just can't win at penalty shootouts. interestingly all black English players who partook in the shootout failed

I am disgusted and disappointed that you could make such an insensitive and crass remark.

Pretty sure Jean didn't mean it in the way you think, but I can see why it might be misconstrued and I'm not really sure what point she was trying to make. 

the point I was trying to make is that they were under an extra pressure, as the after-match reactions from some "fans" who reacted in ways that can only be called racist sadly showed. they were probably very well aware that things like these would happen if they failed


I have zero doubts about your kind-heartedness, but actually scoring in penalty kicks is not an outright choice. What is more, being stressed out of fear of failing affects your "kick" negatively. Sure, some people are audacious and can overcome their stress with their willpower, but not everyone can do that. Plus, you never know if a 19 year old footballer using his first penalty kick in an international tournament has that mental skill... It was the decisive penalty kick FFS! All in all,  England's coach took a great risk and lost, IMO. It also ignited the racism thing. An atrocious by-product.
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