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Black Sabbath, the unsung prog trailblazers

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2021 at 00:47
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

So does that make Hendrix proto-proto prog as a result?

What about all blues based music before that, is that proto-proto-proto?

It's like you guys are looking backwards in hindsight to shoe-horn definitions to fit prog rock while not realizing in the process you're expanding the definition of it into uselessness, because if everything is prog, nothing is.

proto-prog or proto-metal are not music genres, they just are early examples of artists bands create something new, sometimes unique that would influence many others (a bit) later. I can't put it simpler than that. 

You're right, because what you've explained here literally makes zero logical, let alone rational sense, my friend.

Keep arbitrarily deciding something is or isn't a genre or label depending on which way the wind blows.

So Sabbath is a metal band that has bits of prog elements here and there; why bother with the label "proto" if it's not a genre, but a description?

Where does the line between description and genre begin and end?

I don't think Black Sabbath are proto-prog, but I would use "proto-metal". Black Sabbath are prog related here on PA and I agree. 
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 20:31
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Sabbath has some proggy songs but overall isn't enough to be considered proto prog, because if they are, then that introduces pretty much any and all rock band before them as well.

Where is the line and why do we keep moving it? 

Is this site realizing there are fewer bands to discuss, so eventually Wu-Tang Clan's 1993 debut will be considered proto-rap-prog because of odd meter rhymed verses?

This site has an amazing bandwagon effect of people rationalizing aspects of sounds they'd denounce in another thread lol.

Once upon a time, Kate Bush used to be Prog Related on PA while Tori Amos was on Crossover Prog.  My objections, among those of others, to that were overruled with the usual set of PA reasons that bring to mind a Renaissance track about things you don't understand. But eventually, the anomaly was corrected at least to elevate Bush to Crossover Prog.  Though I still don't see what Tori's doing on here. It's nice and all, I like the first couple of albums, I liked them before Tori was added on PA.  But I don't hear the prog?

Likewise, I am a huge Black Sabbath fan and echo most of what you said.  It's a wonderful band but Iommi plays the same riffs and the same guitar solo on almost every track. Then again, this is a website that thinks Metallica is prog related but not Megadeth so clearly not much importance to riffs and variety thereof on here.  On that note, Sabbath being on here is par for the course when Iron Maiden gets there too courtesy Steve Harris playing the same bassline for the last forty years pretty much. 

In a nutshell, I don't give two f**ks anymore.  When I briefly took on the role of a collaborator (which I had to relinquish as work left me with little time to attend to vetting bands), I found most of the suggestions were of undeniably prog rock bands anyway.  So the crying need for the website is still to add those bands in time.  The contentious additions of famous bands that have little to do with prog happen once in a long while.  And haven't in a long time.  I think we have run the course. All these additions like Sabbath or Tallica were made long ago. 
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