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So, Who Exactly is a Member of the Big Six?
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Boboulo View Drop Down
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@The Dark Elf

OMG!


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Any Big 6 has got to include Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd and ELP, they were the biggest, most influential prog bands of the late 60s/early 70s. The 6th choice is harder, personally I would include Camel but that's just because they're one of my favourite bands, but you could equally choose Tull, Rush, Gentle Giant, or possibly some others. Maybe we need a Big 8 or Big 10?
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

@The Dark Elf

OMG!


Shocked
Do you even read the articles you post, Svetonio? Or are you back to just posting nonsense over and over again like the last time you were banned? The article lists 7 songs. All of these songs predate Dark Side of the Moon. The 7 songs are all from Floyd's psychedelic period, although one could say that "Echoes" was leaning toward prog.

OMG, what a maroon.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

@The Dark Elf

OMG!


Shocked
Do you even read the articles you post, Svetonio? Or are you back to just posting nonsense over and over again like the last time you were banned? The article lists 7 songs. All of these songs predate Dark Side of the Moon. The 7 songs are all from Floyd's psychedelic period, although one could say that "Echoes" was leaning toward prog.

OMG, what a maroon.
WinkLOL

Pink Floyd’s ‘Dark Side of the Moon’: 10 Things You Didn’t Know Paul McCartney’s scrapped cameo, a Silver Surfer cover concept and other factors that played into the band’s 1973 psychedelic masterpiece
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LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

@The Dark Elf

OMG!


Shocked
Do you even read the articles you post, Svetonio? Or are you back to just posting nonsense over and over again like the last time you were banned? The article lists 7 songs. All of these songs predate Dark Side of the Moon. The 7 songs are all from Floyd's psychedelic period, although one could say that "Echoes" was leaning toward prog.

OMG, what a maroon.
WinkLOL

  
                                                    

50 Greatest Prog Rock Albums of All Time

#13 - Pink Floyd, 'Animals' (1977)

#4 - Pink Floyd, 'Wish You Were Here' (1975)

#1 - Pink Floyd, 'The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)



LOLLOLLOL
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

My point was that the poster stated they had zero influence, my response was that it may not be as big as the big 6 but was more than zero.
true...
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Actually, "Prog" was the most popular in 1975-1977 when the younger generation of fans arrived.
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Actually, no, prog was not the most popular in 1975-1977. I don't know what turnip truck you fell off of, but you are unequivocally wrong. 

Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play went to #1 in the US in 1972 and 1973 (a year prior, in 1971, Aqualung was top ten in both the U.S. and the UK, Living in the Past was also top ten in '72, and in '74 War Child went to #2 in the States). Fragile, Close to the Edge, Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer were all top ten albums in 71, 72, 73 and 74. Tarkus and Trilogy were top ten in both the U.S. and the UK in 1971 and '72 (with Brain Salad Surgery falling just outside the top ten at #11 in '73).  Both Dark Side of the Moon (1973) and Wish You Were Here (1975) were #1 albums -- and neither were "psychedelic".  They were prog. 

So, four of the alleged "Top Six" had their greatest selling albums between 1971 and 1975, not thereafter. Hilariously, Genesis did not have a top ten album in the states until ABACAB.
 
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Presentation of figures is unnecessary 'cause I wasn't claiming that "Symphonic rock" wasn’t popular in the first half of the 70's. I just mentioned the notorious fact that with the younger generation of kids, who were 13-14 yrs old in the mid-70's, the genre had expanded its army of fans. And naturally, that younger generation cared slightly less about "prog rock" bands that had disbanded in the first half of the decade, like e.g. King Crimson and Family.
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

No, what you stated was '"Prog" was the most popular in 1975-1977'. Your words. It was not. Throwing in asinine qualifiers like "symphonic rock" does not mean a thing, because we are talking prog as a an overall qualification, not parsing. In fact, from a popularity of prog standpoint, the height was 1973, when three different prog albums went to #1: The Moody Blues' Seventh Sojourn, Jethro Tull's A Passion Play, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. No other year had that many prog albums reach the top.
 
Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

I'm afraid that your presentation of figures didn't impress me. The popularity of a genre always was something more than just numbers of records sold. So I repeat once again: in its history, "Symphonic rock" was the most popular when two generations of its fans met, i.e. in the mid-Seventies.
The word "popularity" must mean something different in Serbia. A genre reaches its height in "popularity" when it sells the most albums, hence it is "popular". For instance, Psychedelia was most popular from 1966 to 1969, and albums that were psychedelic tended to end up in the top ten in sales, and every band was on the bandwagon, from The Beatles to the Stones to the Doors and Hendrix; that was no longer the case by 1970, and the genre petered out. The same can be said of punk when it quickly died out and was sanitized into New Wave.

Prog's greatest popularity was from 1971 to 1975, when more prog albums were purchased by more people than at any other time in music history. It is a fact, and numbers can back it up.

Again, your diversion into Symphonic Rock babble doesn't mean a hill of beans.

@ The Dark Elf
Glad you picked up on who this is........I just started reading these posts and thought...."hmm I smell something familiar, reminiscent of large patties in a cow field". 
Best to leave him to his ramblings, I've warned people over at Steve Hoffman Forums about his odor too....Dead
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1 Pink Floyd
2 Brian Eno
3 Can
4 Radiohead
5 The Mothers of Invention
6 Faust


Edited by The Anders - September 08 2020 at 17:56
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Implying no particular order:

1. King Crimson
2. Genesis
3. Yes
4. Jethro Tull
5. Pink Floyd
6. Frank Zappa (and the Mothers of Invention)
7. ELP
8. Rush




Nice list but I personally would have hard time having a list of 8 bands from the first wave that didn't include Gentle Giant. I'm not sure why so many people on here neglect them. Could it be an age thing?


I don’t like them as many of my posts can attest, but I honestly don’t see them as top tier. Nevertheless, a very good and significant band, my tastes aside.

On another matter directed at anyone or everyone, I don’t see how Zappa can ever be left out. His albums sold well, enough, but he was also more prolific than everyone else. So, his sales have to be considered as a sum total of the whole body of his work. Zappa managed to fund not only his bands, but also multiple orchestra projects, which are not cheap to fund. So, yes he was pulling in sales. His influence is also huge and he was essentially the first Prog artist.

What’s special about the number six?
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Commercially speaking, Gentle Giant is probably more than one level below any of the other 7 or 8 that tend to get named in the top 6.  Given how popular ELP, Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Tull, and even KC were.  They had reasonable success in America (perhaps about the same as Strawbs, who also had considerable UK success which eluded GG, but not as high as Renaissance), but were not big in the UK at any point.  From a prog point of view, even though I don't much like them, they are huge, the epitome of prog in some sense.

Also somebody had mentioned that all of KC albums went gold...not in the US.  Only in the Court did.  I remember when it happened too.  1977, I heard it on the radio.  The announcers noted that it took 8 years to go gold, which is longer than most albums stayed in print even back then!  Apparently it eventually went platinum

https://www.riaa.com/?s=king+crimson




Edited by kenethlevine - September 08 2020 at 19:59
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@The Dark Elf

gosh!


Shocked
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Commercially speaking, Gentle Giant is probably more than one level below any of the other 7 or 8 that tend to get named in the top 6.  Given how popular ELP, Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Tull, and even KC were.  They had reasonable success in America (perhaps about the same as Strawbs, who also had considerable UK success which eluded GG, but not as high as Renaissance), but were not big in the UK at any point.  From a prog point of view, even though I don't much like them, they are huge, the epitome of prog in some sense.

Also somebody had mentioned that all of KC albums went gold...not in the US.  Only in the Court did.  I remember when it happened too.  1977, I heard it on the radio.  The announcers noted that it took 8 years to go gold, which is longer than most albums stayed in print even back then!  Apparently it eventually went platinum

https://www.riaa.com/?s=king+crimson

Wow, I guess I did not know it took 8yrs to go Gold, I would have guessed by '73.
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Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Implying no particular order:

1. King Crimson
2. Genesis
3. Yes
4. Jethro Tull
5. Pink Floyd
6. Frank Zappa (and the Mothers of Invention)
7. ELP
8. Rush




Nice list but I personally would have hard time having a list of 8 bands from the first wave that didn't include Gentle Giant. I'm not sure why so many people on here neglect them. Could it be an age thing?


I don’t like them as many of my posts can attest, but I honestly don’t see them as top tier. Nevertheless, a very good and significant band, my tastes aside.

On another matter directed at anyone or everyone, I don’t see how Zappa can ever be left out. His albums sold well, enough, but he was also more prolific than everyone else. So, his sales have to be considered as a sum total of the whole body of his work. Zappa managed to fund not only his bands, but also multiple orchestra projects, which are not cheap to fund. So, yes he was pulling in sales. His influence is also huge and he was essentially the first Prog artist.

What’s special about the number six?



Frank Zappa isn't a band. I have nothing against him but he's a solo artist. If you included him you would also have to include Mike Oldfield, Rick Wakeman, Peter Gabriel and maybe a few others. Otherwise it's just a list of your personal favorites. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think that was the task requested.

As for GG they are one of the most important bands whether you think so or not. They are usually ranked just after King Crimson as far as importance goes(ie number one of the "second tier" bands). A lot of people on this site don't seem to agree(maybe it's an age thing)so you aren't the only one but that doesn't change their place in the history of prog. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 08 2020 at 20:25
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Commercially speaking, Gentle Giant is probably more than one level below any of the other 7 or 8 that tend to get named in the top 6.  Given how popular ELP, Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Tull, and even KC were.  They had reasonable success in America (perhaps about the same as Strawbs, who also had considerable UK success which eluded GG, but not as high as Renaissance), but were not big in the UK at any point.  From a prog point of view, even though I don't much like them, they are huge, the epitome of prog in some sense.

Also somebody had mentioned that all of KC albums went gold...not in the US.  Only in the Court did.  I remember when it happened too.  1977, I heard it on the radio.  The announcers noted that it took 8 years to go gold, which is longer than most albums stayed in print even back then!  Apparently it eventually went platinum

https://www.riaa.com/?s=king+crimson

Wow, I guess I did not know it took 8yrs to go Gold, I would have guessed by '73.

I'm typically the only one(that I know of)who talks about gold and platinum albums(and sales in general)on here but this time it wasn't me. Anyway, "court" was released in 69 but didn't go gold until 77 so yeah 8 years. So far it's the only album of theirs to be certified gold. No other albums of theirs have. However, I'd be willing to bet the "court" has gone platinum by now(over 40 years after it has been certified gold)or at the very least is very close to it(maybe 900,000 albums sold) especially with all the attention it has received in prog circles and even beyond in the past ten years or so. The RIAA, however, doesn't always keep close tabs on album sales and from what I understand they usually won't check an albums sales figures unless the label requests it.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 08 2020 at 20:22
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Implying no particular order:

1. King Crimson
2. Genesis
3. Yes
4. Jethro Tull
5. Pink Floyd
6. Frank Zappa (and the Mothers of Invention)
7. ELP
8. Rush




Nice list but I personally would have hard time having a list of 8 bands from the first wave that didn't include Gentle Giant. I'm not sure why so many people on here neglect them. Could it be an age thing?


I don’t like them as many of my posts can attest, but I honestly don’t see them as top tier. Nevertheless, a very good and significant band, my tastes aside.

On another matter directed at anyone or everyone, I don’t see how Zappa can ever be left out. His albums sold well, enough, but he was also more prolific than everyone else. So, his sales have to be considered as a sum total of the whole body of his work. Zappa managed to fund not only his bands, but also multiple orchestra projects, which are not cheap to fund. So, yes he was pulling in sales. His influence is also huge and he was essentially the first Prog artist.

What’s special about the number six?



Frank Zappa isn't a band. I have nothing against him but he's a solo artist. If you included him you would have to include Mike Oldfield, Rick Wakeman, Peter Gabriel and maybe a few others. Otherwise it's just a list of your personal favorites. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think that was the task requested.

As for GG they are one of the most important bands whether you think so or not. They are usually ranked just after King Crimson as far as importance goes(ie number one of the "second tier" bands). A lot of people on this site don't seem to agree(maybe it's an age thing)so you aren't the only one but that doesn't change their place in the history of prog. 
I'm not home this week, but I'd like to look thru my Prog Magazine issue that was the Top 100 Progressive Bands survey, maybe its online. I think the issue came out 2 yrs ago??
I'd like to see where GG placed.....I have tried to listen to them, that baroque chamber style music is not my cup of tea. So I really have no opinion of them....
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I'm not sure maybe number 20 but I wouldn't go by them anyway. They probably have Dream Theater in the top 10. :P That said I still like the magazine and read it.

My main reason for having GG as part of the big six is because when I used to go on the progressive ears website and they did those big five or big six lists at least 80 percent of the members on there had GG in their top six if not top five. While I don't care for their over all community and snobbery they definitely know their prog and if they place GG that high up that consistently then you know there's a good reason for it. Also, GG used to regularly fill large theaters of at least two thousand seats and at one point(according to one of the GG members) were about as big as Genesis before Genesis became more popular and "sold out." Also, over time they have become at least as respected in prog circles as ELP if not more so.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 08 2020 at 20:38
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Commercially speaking, Gentle Giant is probably more than one level below any of the other 7 or 8 that tend to get named in the top 6.  Given how popular ELP, Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Tull, and even KC were.  They had reasonable success in America (perhaps about the same as Strawbs, who also had considerable UK success which eluded GG, but not as high as Renaissance), but were not big in the UK at any point.  From a prog point of view, even though I don't much like them, they are huge, the epitome of prog in some sense.

Also somebody had mentioned that all of KC albums went gold...not in the US.  Only in the Court did.  I remember when it happened too.  1977, I heard it on the radio.  The announcers noted that it took 8 years to go gold, which is longer than most albums stayed in print even back then!  Apparently it eventually went platinum

https://www.riaa.com/?s=king+crimson

Wow, I guess I did not know it took 8yrs to go Gold, I would have guessed by '73.

I'm typically the only one(that I know of)who talks about gold and platinum albums(and sales in general)on here but this time it wasn't me. Anyway, "court" was released in 69 but didn't go gold until 77 so yeah 8 years. So far it's the only album of theirs to be certified gold. No other albums of theirs have. However, I'd be willing to bet the "court" has gone platinum by now(over 40 years after it has been certified gold)or at the very least is very close to it(maybe 900,000 albums sold) especially with all the attention it has received in prog circles and even beyond in the past ten years or so. The RIAA, however, doesn't always keep close tabs on album sales and from what I understand they usually won't check an albums sales figures unless the label requests it.
Ohh Bro, believe I know.....Early days here I talked RIAA sales figures but really nobody cares here when your talking about lists of "best bands" that always turns out to be lists of "favorite bands", sales means doo-doo squat here LOL! Especially when people stream so much now they forgot how to buy a CD, Record and now Cassette tapes that are gaining huge popularity.
One thing for sure is you cannot argue against record sales, I mean the Fab Four suck, but they sold a boat load of records LOL.
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Reminds me, a couple of years ago I bought a used vinyl copy of “Red” and it had a “cutout” notch in the side. I remember thinking, wow, THIS was a cutout? But yeah. These albums weren’t big sellers. Even Crimso had to slum it for quite a while.

Edited by HolyMoly - September 08 2020 at 20:39
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm not sure maybe number 20 but I wouldn't go by them anyway. They probably have Dream Theater in the top 10. :P That said I still like the magazine and read it.

My main reason for having GG as part of the big six is because when I used to go on the progressive ears website and they did those big five or big six lists at least 80 percent of the members on there had GG in their top six if not top five. While I don't care for their over all community and snobbery they definitely know their prog and if they place GG that high up that consistently then you know there's a good reason for it. Also, GG used to regularly fill large theaters of at least two thousand seats and at one point(according to one of the GG members) were about as big as Genesis before Genesis became more popular and "sold out." 
I don't doubt it.....I don't do PE, never did really. But its common that a magazine should reach a much larger audience, so it might...might be a bit more definitive, as well subjective. I think DT were in the top 12, I hope I remember to look when I get home Friday. But remember I am sure there are tons that don't think Pink Floyd should be on any prog list Shocked....so

Every band thinks they are bigger than the other band....LOL. But if GG makes it then CAN should be there too Angry
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In my post above I do mention that "In the Court" went platinum.  I don't know when it happened.  I just remember that the fact that it took 8 years to go gold was very much celebrated at the time, an unusual occurrence.  That is, if you haven't gone gold fairly quickly, it usually didn't happen at all.
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