Walkscore wrote: This is one of those polls where I think the comparison is not really valid. All three albums are great, and totally unique, but not at all in the same genre/category. Apples, oranges, and pears. I voted for Wyatt's Rock Bottom because I think it is one of the greatest pieces of music ever. But the other two albums are also really great, and also at or near the top of their classes.

Sorry in advance for the repetition...

One could make valid arguments when comparing these three, and one can make valid comparisons by listing both similarities and dissimilarities (contrasting can be a part of comparing).

You've managed to compare similarities as you see it by saying "All three albums are great, and totally unique", and dissimilarities (contrasts) by stating "but not at all in the same genre/category". In terms of validity, I would say it comes down to whether the argument that would justify those statements are valid (sufficient, relevant, and acceptable).

One could also say that these three albums commonly appeal to similar audiences, and are all avant-oriented (if this site had multi-tagging, which I wish it did for albums, then all three albums could share a so-called "Avant" descriptor). I would describe Rock Bottom and In the Silent Corner of the Empty Stage as kinds of avant art rock, and First Utterance as a sort of avant art folk. Furthermore, all three albums can be categorised as progressive music, all three were considered to have enough of a Prog relation to be inlcuded in the Prog Archives database, and I wouldn't call any of them mainstream music, or even mainstream Prog. They share, to my mind, a uniqueness, they share, to my mind, both avant prog and art prog qualities, they, importantly to me as the poll-starter, share being three of my favourite albums.

I would argue that despite the three albums being in different categories at Prog Archives, these three albums have various musical points of convergence. One could classify all three as of the Prog genre (perhaps using a wider umbrella of Prog), then sub-classify Comus as Avant Art Acid Folk, The Silent Corner... as Avant Art Rock (our Eclectic category invention split from Art Rock), and Rock Bottom as Canterbury Scene Avant Art Rock.   If this site used multi-tagging, I would tag all three albums with the "avant" label amongst other labels. So, while categorised differently here, one can find styles and attitudes where the music and musical approaches converge, as well as where audiences converge (of course one person might love one of these albums and dislike the others, another might love two of them and hate the other, one might love all three while another might hate all three etc.).

I do think that these three albums would be more likely to appeal to those into the more avant-garde and more off-beat oriented music in PA than to those into the more typical/ mainstream/ very commercial Prog acts. I have often noticed that these three albums and acts often appeal to a similar audience.

Of less note: Hammill's and Wyatt's albums share the same year release date, Comus being three years earlier, and they all share a general rating at Prog Archives of over 4 stars (The Silent Corner... has a 4.31, Rock Bottom has a 4.30, and First Utterance has a 4.14 rating).

While they are not equally divisive, I also would say that these three albums and artists would be more divisive than various albums in PA (yes, when making such claims the burden of proof should be on me, and that is a very weak statement). Comus has been the most divisive in my experience (I have often seen love or loathe responses), but I have also seen love or loathe responses to Hammill and Wyatt in the fora. Of course one could say that of many/most albums and acts, and I'm not presenting this as a strong argument for comparison.

As said, in making valid comparisons, one can be looking for both similarities and dissimilarities. The comparisons one brings to the proceedings -- they certainly can be compared/contrasted -- are valid or invalid depending on the soundness, justifiability and cogency of the argument one can make to support such comparisons.

If this is an apples, oranges and pears comparison, at least all three of those are fruit, and like my enjoyment of apples, oranges and pears, I enjoy the three fruits in this poll. It's not like comparing apples to motorcycle to supernova, although even there I would be justified to have preference in terms of what most interests me or I would most enjoy experiencing. Would I rather go for a ride on a motorcycle, eat an apple, or witness a supernova up close and personal? It sort of depends on the day.

For those that have no preference (it's all about preference), I have offered another alternative. For some the choice is easy.

I chose these three albums because I love them (my primary reason), find them quite unique, do consider all three to be excellent albums of their respective PA categories, do think they all have "avant" qualities, and because I knew various like-minded people also love all three albums. Was that valid enough reason to come up with this poll? From my persepctive, yes.

By the way, I've done polls of contrast before such as Robert Wyatt vs. Neal Morse, Chuck Schuldiner vs. Christian Vander, Phil Collins vs. Robert Wyatt, and ones like Dream Theater vs. Tangerine Dream, Magma vs. Marillion, Cardiacs vs. Rush, Art Zoyd vs IQ etc. and in those cases I was able to draw many comparisons (both in similarities and in contrasts). This poll seems a more natural fit to me, partially as this is more of an equal expression of my tastes.

I suppose rather like I tend to think that we all bring our own meaning to our lives, I think we can all bring our own sense of validity to the proceedings (I like to think we can be rational, and we are pattern seeking animals). Vote as thou wilt, and think about it as thou wilt. Everyone is free to bring their own tastes to the poll, and arguments, if they wish to make them, to the discussion. It;s perfectly valid to like one more than another, or to appreciate all three equally. One can think deeply about it, or not. I tend to go with my “gut” in polls, or mood du jour, so to speak.

Hammill today. Could be Comus tomorrow.

Hammill, Peter - The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage

Just bumping this because I think it was a little too soon for this bottom to be utterly silenced.

As to my overlong response to Walkscore, of course I was going for a funny title and choosing three albums I love, but all have certain artsy and quirky qualities, and avant qualities, that means they aren't of terribly different music appreciation worlds to me.

Edited by Logan - November 13 2021 at 09:15

geekfreak wrote: Hammill > Wyatt > Comus

Logan wrote: ^ I really hope he's okay. I have been concerned. I would try to email him but I don't wish to intrude.

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 13 2021 at 09:54

Logan wrote: Just bumping this because I think it was a little too soon for this bottom to be utterly silenced.

No bottom should be silenced. How about some Big Bottom??

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - November 13 2021 at 17:23

Bottom's up with a rather silent but deadly bump.