Ok. Which is superior ? |
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The Anders
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 02 2019 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3529 |
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I'd pick Dark Side at any time. I find it one of the most accomplised and intriguing rock albums ever made, both in terms of songwriting, concept, sonic texture and general musical and artistic wholeness.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732 |
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Floyd is my #1 band, and indeed I place Wish you were Here and Animals over Dark Side... I even like The Division Bell over Dark Side. But I won't really argue if, specially within non prog rock lists or polls, Dark Side comes first. It is indeed an special achievement as an album, and as a concept album, and about attention to detail. |
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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I am a decent Floyd fan (Meddle and onwards, not super familiar with the early stuff) and I doubt DSOTM ever drops below number 2 for me. Wish You Were Here is the one I've always struggled to connect with. At times its great, and at others its just kind of boring.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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I cannot speak for Floyd fanboys in general because at least outside this board, I know this opinion which I am about to state is not necessarily very popular among Floydians. But I personally never saw the fuss about WYWH. I mean it's a very, very good album, beautiful melodies and all but I never saw it as the undeniable masterpiece it is often made out to be. And I really don't like Floyd moving out of pyschedelic noise and trying to write structured blues 'jams' (I put jams in single quotes exactly because it's way too structured to evoke the feeling of a jam). And then the second part seems to be trying to evoke jazz rock/fusion and it's even more boring for me. If I wanted a blues jam, I would listen to Allman Brothers. I would listen to the wonderful Gary Moore-BB King jam on Thrill Is Gone that's up on YouTube and which every lover of guitar should listen to at least once. If I wanted JR/F, I would listen to Mahavishnu or RTF, even Di Meola solo. Floyd comes across as too tame when they attempt this. Actually, much more so than DSOTM, it is WYWH which comes across as gateway prog for me. Like In Absentia era PT, it is very comforting and melodic, and also very safe. And the longish lengths make it feel like it's prog but it's only about as prog as Child In Time or Stairway To Heaven. So overall, no, I prefer the succinctness and punch of Dark Side anyday. Lyrically too, there is a lot of waxing over Syd on WYWH which is nice but also lacks the broad sweep of Dark Side as well as the latter's more bitter outlook. Notice how many songs on Dark Side concern death or a path that leads to death. Lyrically, Dark Side is way more hard hitting, at least for me. Hard hitting lyrics is the chief attraction of Animals. And the concept overall is very coherent too which does make it a much harder choice between Animals and Dark Side for me. But musically, I find Pigs VERY rambling and Sheep too a little rambling with Dogs being the only one that works in totality for me. So again, the brevity of DSOTM works for me. Basically, I don't think Floyd should have attempted epics or mini epics after Echoes. That was their best and they were never going to top that. I am sympathetic to Animals because Floyd came out swinging with all these long tracks in the peak of punk and because the lyrics were too hard hitting to be dismissed as airy-fairy out of touch prog, critics were put in a fix. But as an overall listening experience, no, I still don't think it gets up to DSOTM. The Wall comes closest until it falters a little towards the end. The problem with Wall is every song is wedded tightly to the narrative to the point that the ones towards the end like Trial do not work outside the context of the concept. Whereas on Dark Side, the concept is broader rather than being about a specific person's story and the songs standalone have a lot to say. |
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 09 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3242 |
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I'll never forget the first time I listened to WYWH with a couple of friends. Absolutely freaked me out. The lyrics about Syd make it more emotionally connecting for me than DSOTM. Animals has only one outstanding song to me in Dogs whereas The Wall rambles on a bit too long on the fourth side but has Comfortably Numb which is their best ever song.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
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Edited by SteveG - April 09 2020 at 11:05 |
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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I am a Floyd fanboy and no-one just canīt say me what I prefer from them. To me WYWH is the second weakest Floyd album in their 1967-79 albums (only Obscured is weaker). And although Animals is really high in my rating and I listen it more these days than Dark Side, it doesnīt go over. After Atom Heart albums Dark Side is the greatest.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Online Points: 28021 |
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I suppose what I am really saying is that it was just as pretentious as everything else that was called 'prog' but somehow managed to gain a lot of credit for being down to earth. It still feels altogether too contrived and convenient. It was also backed by a massive marketing campaign in the USA where they were keen to break into. It succeeded in spades of course. I don't want to come off as a 'hater' though because I have massive respect for Waters, Gilmour and Co. Wish You Were Here on the other hand was the prog album of the mid seventies and I like to believe that was the album they really wanted to do but perhaps felt there were other pressures that lead them down the DSOTM route first. Again just theorising and not trying to say this is the truth. Its just my view for what's it worth ( diddly squat I expect)
Edited by richardh - April 10 2020 at 00:43 |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Aye...the older floyd releases I have in my collection, but as yet unplayed...another gap in my prog listening experience. I have only just got round to hearing Yes and Time and a word...even though I have both vinyl and CD versions....I have said before I have hundreds of unheard cds and at least a 1000 single spun cds....I suffer from wantimg to spin what I love when preparing a playlist...😎
Edited by M27Barney - April 10 2020 at 00:42 |
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Sacro_Porgo
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I kind of doubt they put together DSOTM wanting to make WYWH all along.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sacro_Porgo
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I've always felt WYWH is actually a touch more commercial than DSOTM. Sure it's very spacey and atmospheric, but it also has the title track, which is 70s radio incarnate, and Have A Cigar, which is the kind of great blues jam half a dozen rock bands could've made a hit out of. DSOTM isn't uncommercial, but I think it's telling that it has On The Run and The Great Gig In The Sky on it, as well as the fact that although Money became a massive hit, it is the only song by any band in 7/4 ever to reach that level of chart success. No matter how catchy that bass line is, it must have seemed unlikely that it would really hit big until it happened. WYWH just seems more cleaned up to me, even its experiments still keeping one ear to the charts.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Nah, WYWH was the one they made when they were burnt out after the success of DSOTM. And it shows. Also the beginning of the Waters-isation of Floyd.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20240 |
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what?? let a bunch of ignorant, opiniated and skewed twisted minds get it all wrong?? No bloody way!! especially when everyone knows that Caravanserai is the best one out there
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Exactly my thoughts. Their most by the numbers album of the ones from Meddle to Wall.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Online Points: 14712 |
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Very well written and I agree with most of this, except that I can still connect better to the music on Animals, maybe because it was my first Floyd album and one of my first albums overall, and for me it had a big impact even if not on the world of music, but maybe also because analysis of music sometimes can't get into why a certain guitar part, a certain transition etc. work so well on an emotional level. By the way, I couldn't get into Dark Side for a long time and until not so many years ago I would have ranked it lower than the three that came after it and most that came before. Not that I didn't like it but I couldn't see what's so great about it, or rather I saw a well working concept but not so much the greatness of the music behind it, a bit like Barney if you want... at some point it just clicked, and how it clicked!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Thanks. And for me, Dark Side was my introduction to Floyd so that may be a part of why I am more attached to it vis a vis Animals.
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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The start of Shine on, is sublime, atmospheric theatre and extended...Genesis should have done similar with Salmacis, where a great track could have been made epic along with an extended guitar solo at the end...and an obviously OTT start and the great VCS 3 work at the end, makes shine on far less likeable to non proggers....It has the essence of symphonic prog genius...but replace the sax with guitar or synth and it would gain more for me anyway...I know i'm a particular kind of prog snob...but I know what I like...
Edited by M27Barney - April 10 2020 at 05:41 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Online Points: 28021 |
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well obviously I totally disagree with that . Rick Wright's synths are tremendous on that album (very bored by what he does on DSOTM tbh) so I think Waters was still 'allowing' others to come and influence the music. It was after this that it became Water's band although I still love Animals and The Wall is alos very important to me and has way more 'heart' than DSOTM (IMHO).
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Olape
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I totally agree with this opinion.
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zeuhl1
Collaborator RPI Team Joined: April 09 2020 Location: Dunwich, Mass Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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I used to work in a record store in the early 90's customer: "hey you guys don't have any Floyd?" me: "yes, did you look under P" customer: "I'm an idiot"
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