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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.


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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.



Meh. What's done can't be undone. I guess we'd be much better off without ~5-6 subgenres featured in here. I agree that some Metal lists here scream "2009!!!" so it's better to look elsewhere.
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Kate Bush and David Bowie are two of the more eclectic inclusions on ProgArchives because neither of those artists are generally regarded as Progressive Rock, but I'm glad they're both here anyway. Smile
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Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.



Meh. What's done can't be undone. I guess we'd be much better off without ~5-6 subgenres featured in here. I agree that some Metal lists here scream "2009!!!" so it's better to look elsewhere.



No, this is not what I meant, the subgenres are fine.
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

It's nothing more than a computer generated list. It shows albums that are generally universally loved, which also means that riskier or controversial albums are likely to be left out. Since experimentation and risk-taking are so important in the genre, this does mean that some important artists like Soft Machine or Captain Beefheart do get left out on the basis that they can be too experimental to resonate with many people (and there's nothing wrong with not enjoying these artists - prog isn't a competition to listen to the most experimental music). 

It would be cool if there were some way to take the standard deviation of all the ratings. I believe the higher the standard deviation, the more the ratings are spread out over the 1 to 5 ratings spectrum. Then it's conceivable we could have a list of the top 100 (or some other number) controversial albums. I think that would be an interesting list to explore.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

In my world

The Snow Goose
Moonmadness
Mirage

...or as I call it The Snow Madness Mirage, which I have experienced in Sweden, blinded by the winter light on snow covered roads and swerving for vehicles that aren't there.


Here’s one you don’t often hear:

Moonmadness
Rajaz
Mirage
Snow Goose
Nod and a Wink
Debut
Nude

All excellent
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Harbour of Tears is fantastic as well.
PROGMATIC
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Originally posted by progmatic progmatic wrote:

Harbour of Tears is fantastic as well.
 
I agree. I was lucky enough to find that album in my local FOPP record store years ago and I bought it without even needing to hear it first. I still regard Harbour of Tears as one of Camel's finest albums.
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Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

So what about the thousands of bands already listed here without said ‘prog pedegree’? We merely nuke em all alongside the thousands of reviews written for said albums?
Nahh...such an idea as making a prog site with altogether new ways of looking at the inclusion parametres..well that requires a new site
I'm with you. I like ProgArchives just the way it is now and I wouldn't change anything - apart from adding Annie Haslam to the PA database. Wink
 
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
 

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.
Metal is Metal.
Prog is Prog.

Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.

I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. 

This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...

Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!

Exactly. The people that disagree with this will also be the first to break down prog into 1,905 sub genres, and argue about why each is what and who and when.

Ditto to both posts.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Kate Bush and David Bowie are two of the more eclectic inclusions on ProgArchives because neither of those artists are generally regarded as Progressive Rock, but I'm glad they're both here anyway. Smile

Might be the issue, then ... when is progressive rock, MUSIC, and when is progressive music ... ROCK? When it is electrified?

That's likely an even bigger problem than the eclectic inclusions!
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Wow, I can’t believe people are saying dream theater, Opeth and romantic warrior don’t deserve to be on a prog top 100.
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
 

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.
Metal is Metal.
Prog is Prog.

Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.

I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. 

This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...

Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!

Exactly. The people that disagree with this will also be the first to break down prog into 1,905 sub genres, and argue about why each is what and who and when.

Ditto to both posts.
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Most prog metal bands have morphed into straight prog now. Opeth, Riverside, etc.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
 

<span style="line-height: 16.54px;">
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.</span><div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Metal is Metal.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Prog is Prog.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. <div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!<span style="line-height: 16.54px;">
</span><div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Exactly. The people that disagree with this will also be the first to break down prog into 1,905 sub genres, and argue about why each is what and who and when.


Ditto to both posts.
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Most prog metal bands have morphed into straight prog now. Opeth, Riverside, etc.



Most? No, not by a long way, some would be the correct word to use. And some so called prog-metal bands are going back to simpler metal, and some were never really prog-metal anyway.
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So the biggest gripe about the top 100 is the presence of Fusion, Metal & Kind Of Blue? Just glad no-one has gone after all the Avant & Zeuhl. Suppose we should just have Symph & Neo and nothing after 79.
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My biggest gripe about any poll or list is that people gripe about it.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.

EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
 

<span style="line-height: 16.54px;">
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.</span><div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Metal is Metal.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Prog is Prog.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. <div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!<span style="line-height: 16.54px;">
</span><div style="line-height: 16.54px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.54px;">Exactly. The people that disagree with this will also be the first to break down prog into 1,905 sub genres, and argue about why each is what and who and when.


Ditto to both posts.
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Most prog metal bands have morphed into straight prog now. Opeth, Riverside, etc.



Most? No, not by a long way, some would be the correct word to use. And some so called prog-metal bands are going back to simpler metal, and some were never really prog-metal anyway.
Ok, then. Let's say the ones in our orbit. Tongue And using your logic, progressive rock is only rock that has progressed within rock. ClapLOL
Edited to inset laughing emoji.  

Edited by SteveG - February 20 2020 at 11:41
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Originally posted by progmatic progmatic wrote:

My biggest gripe about any poll or list is that people gripe about it.

I'm used to hearing gripes about my polls, but I just shrug them off like a bunch of grapes. Smile
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If anything fusion makes the most logical sense to include, as it's actually a progression of one or more styles combined. Metal is just metal with progressive elements, but it's still metal. 

Romantic Warrior is closer to progressive rock than Opeth, Symphony X, or Dream Theater.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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