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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 11:16
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I’ll add another. I love both these albums, but Moonmadness should be ranked higher than Mirage imo.


funny thing: Mirage is 4.39 and Moonmadness is 4.38 LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 11:47
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Point of order: I must ask, is the Top 100 supposed to be a prog top 100 representing progressive music or is it closer to the Top 100 favourite albums of forum members? It is an important distinction, because any Top 100 of prog that omits iconic albums from true progressive bands in place of metal, hard rock, pop and jazz albums is not worth much as a representative guide.


It's nothing more than a computer generated list. It shows albums that are generally universally loved, which also means that riskier or controversial albums are likely to be left out. Since experimentation and risk-taking are so important in the genre, this does mean that some important artists like Soft Machine or Captain Beefheart do get left out on the basis that they can be too experimental to resonate with many people (and there's nothing wrong with not enjoying these artists - prog isn't a competition to listen to the most experimental music).

It can be a very useful list if you're new to prog and you want to discover some of the greatest albums in the genre, but it's by no means comprehensive. Or if you're familiar with prog, it can help fill in some gaps you might have missed. Use it as a starting point, and then let your own opinions and tastes guide you along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progmatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:11
Very nicely stated.

PROGMATIC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2020 at 12:41
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" is one of my all-time favourite Jazz albums, so I have no problem with it being included in the PA Hot 100 table. Smile

Then it should be included in an all-time 100 jazz table, or is it me who is missing something?😕
If Miles Davis is included in ProgArchives on account of his "Bitches Brew" album being Jazz-Rock/Fusion, then all of his other albums have to be included too, regardless of whether they're even remotely proggy. Many PA members have obviously voted for his very non-prog "Kind of Blue" album, so I have no problem with it being included amongst the Top 100 PA albums. On the other hand though, before I arrived at ProgArchives, I never would have considered any Miles Davis albums to be Progressive Rock. Smile

Neither, for that matter, do I, and therein lies the problem with the utterly daft idea of adding and rating artists, rather than albums. From memory, the Davis pantheon of albums started in the late 1940’s, when most of our prog heroes were still in nappies, and certainly the world had never heard of the phrase, because it didn’t exist, and yet they are on the site.

Nothing will change, though, so it is rather pointless moaning about it. The only reason I do is because I have just got back after yet another long couple of days away, and I am feeling distinctly grumpy 😡 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 01:36
Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 01:44
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.


it does not work like that.
If you dislike PA so much, why are you still here?
Your negativity has got old. I don't see the point of your constant complaining. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 01:48
So what about the thousands of bands already listed here without said ‘prog pedegree’? We merely nuke em all alongside the thousands of reviews written for said albums?
Nahh...such an idea as making a prog site with altogether new ways of looking at the inclusion parametres..well that requires a new site
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 01:51
I think if it's jazz, it's jazz. Metal is metal. They can have progressive tendencies, but I always view prog rock as a conscious effort. Even the "art rock" bands knew they were attempting something more. I don't buy the BS "We all just thought it was ALL rock and roll" (insert prog band leader here), so why does it sound different? Because you were progressing the sound.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:10
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.


it does not work like that.
If you dislike PA so much, why are you still here?
Your negativity has got old. I don't see the point of your constant complaining. Confused

Read the title of the thread "gripe",it was set-up for complaining, that is the whole point.
Then read the first sentence of the text "With respect for everyone's opinion"

And then just scroll on by and talk a walk in the trees.

Why are you still here, reading this thread, if you think everything is fine?

Your negativity and constant complaining is boring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:26
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I’ll add another. I love both these albums, but Moonmadness should be ranked higher than Mirage imo.


funny thing: Mirage is 4.39 and Moonmadness is 4.38 LOL
Maybe it was a mirage that the Mirage album was ranked higher than Moonmadness, or maybe someone had a touch of Lunar Sea and ranked Mirage higher. Anyway, I'm going to set the record straight soon by giving Moonmadness five stars and Mirage four stars. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - February 20 2020 at 02:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:39
In my world

The Snow Goose
Moonmadness
Mirage

...or as I call it The Snow Madness Mirage, which I have experienced in Sweden, blinded by the winter light on snow covered roads and swerving for vehicles that aren't there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 02:58
Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.


it does not work like that.
If you dislike PA so much, why are you still here?
Your negativity has got old. I don't see the point of your constant complaining. Confused

Read the title of the thread "gripe",it was set-up for complaining, that is the whole point.
Then read the first sentence of the text "With respect for everyone's opinion"

And then just scroll on by and talk a walk in the trees.

Why are you still here, reading this thread, if you think everything is fine?

Your negativity and constant complaining is boring.


How am I being negative? LOL

I have never understood why some people are annoyed by the top 100. But then again, there's rating abuse because god forbid someone's beloved album does not make it to the top or is low rated by others (tastes, you know) or whatever these people are thinking, what do i know...

There are many albums I love that are not in the top 100, what should I do, throw a hissy fit? LOL

For a newbie to the world of prog, the top 100 gives a few ideas on what albums to start with.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:07
I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:08
The way I look at it, prog anything is going to attract picky personalities.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:16
I'm perfectly happy to have Jazz-Rock/Fusion included on ProgArchives, otherwise we  wouldn't have Santana here. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:16
Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:24
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
I like Neo-Prog. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:28
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
I like Neo-Prog. Wink


you are not helping...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:31
^^ All I'm saying is I don't have any gripes with the PA Top 100 because they're the albums that PA members have voted for, even if they're not all Progressive Rock. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2020 at 03:46
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.




Edited by thief - February 20 2020 at 03:47
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