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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 06:43
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

my favourite album (Brain Salad Surgery) doesn't make the top 100 but the rating itself is fine. There is an awful lot of stuff that is too highly rated. I wouldn't count Fragile as that is probably the best 'starter prog' album there is. Dark Side Of The Moon and In The Court Of The Crimson King are the 2 albums I would jettison from the top ten ( but fine for the top 100) . Also Rick Wakeman should have at least one album in the top 100. I would like a lot less Camel and Tull and a lot more ELP in the top 100. Don't mind Opeth appearing a lot as they are one of the post 70's BIG SIX as far as I'm concerned.

Hi,

This would resolve itself easily enough if the top 100 was about the bands and THEIR music, instead of albums ... maybe a separate poll ... but in the end, one band having 5 albums, and another band having 4 albums and another band having 4 albums, is completely ridiculous and it just shows that the top 100 poll leans towards the "favoritism" of the whole thing ... and for this, I would say that a "review" should not, necessarily mean 10 points, but I can see how it can help ... most folks, I don't know for sure, will not bother with a review and might add one that is 25 words long (silly ... something like that!) ... just to get the extra votes, like the example above ... so almost 50 years of being known and heard is total caca compared to a band from 2 years ago.

THAT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP ... nothing against that band!

Again, have a poll that means a lot more and make sure you say that the "top" 100 bands does not necessarily mean that one is better than the other or ranks higher ... maybe even go so far as to rank them alphabetically so I don't get tired of seeing YES and GENESIS ... all over the damn place ... and I have their albums. 

I think the issue is ... the Admins here don't agree on much together, and worse ... getting them together is probably impossible with folks everywhere around the world ... one of the things that the top 100 poll conveniently lacks and dislikes!


Edited by moshkito - February 18 2020 at 06:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:37
Jazz is Jazz.
Metal is Metal.
Prog is Prog.

Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.

I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. 

This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...

Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:39
I def think albums like blacksstar, abbey road and related should be included. They have the ratings, apparently they just aren’t prog enough?

Edited by dougmcauliffe - February 18 2020 at 07:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:43
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I think the issue is ... the Admins here don't agree on much together, and worse ... getting them together is probably impossible with folks everywhere around the world ... one of the things that the top 100 poll conveniently lacks and dislikes!
 
As usual it's the Admins fault - how do they have any control over the Top 100 without changing the way it's calculated? Can they even do that?
 
To be honest, it's a long time since I looked at the Top 100. I do feel it gives a fairly good representation of classic prog albums for any coming to the site for an insight into the wonderful world of prog.
It's faults?  Kind of Blue as others have mentioned and the fact that new releases tend to appear high in the list at first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:43
Tales should be on the list---its an important prog album and u can't get more proggy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 07:50
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Tales should be on the list---its an important prog album and u can't get more proggy.


It’s in my personal top 20. I wish it was as loved universally as some of their other albums. For now, I’ll just agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 08:03
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I think the issue is ... the Admins here don't agree on much together, and worse ... getting them together is probably impossible with folks everywhere around the world ... one of the things that the top 100 poll conveniently lacks and dislikes!
 
As usual it's the Admins fault - how do they have any control over the Top 100 without changing the way it's calculated? Can they even do that?
 


As far as I am aware the answers are no & no. Unless they could change the weighting of collaborator & reviews. It's a popularity contest based on ratings from members. WYSIWYG. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 08:07
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Tales should be on the list---its an important prog album and u can't get more proggy.
 
Personally I rate it above Fragile which is number 11 on the list, but that's the thing, not everyone else agrees with me for some strange reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 13:56
I've given Wobbler's "From Silence to Somewhere" and All Traps on Earth a thousand spins and just can't get to like them! I just don't understand how they're in the top 30, while ELP is barely present in the list
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:47
Far too much stuff that is not prog. Progressive metal is metal that has progressed within metal, it is not metal that has become prog.

Where are the progressive house, progressive garage and progressive hip hop artists then?   Exactly!!!!
Progressive metal is metal not prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 14:54
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Every jazz album that the artists themselves would not have considered "progressive rock" (I am looking at you, Miles Davis, Billy Cobham, Nucleus, etc.).

Also, I find it a joke that 

A Drop Of Light
All Traps On Earth

is rated 28th with only 433 ratings. WTF? Look at the masterpieces that are following it, and ones that aren't even on the 100 list. Any sentient member would not consider this some kind of masterpiece better than Hot Rats, The Yes Album, Meddle, Crime of the Century, ELP debut, Lateralus, Voyage of the Acolyte, A Trick of the Tail, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, A Farewell to Kings, Rock Bottom, Aqualung (which isn't even on the list), etc. 

Even funnier "All Traps On Earth" was not even voted as one of the TOP 50 in the 2018 Prog Archives Collaborators Album of the Year. Again, WTF? There's a bad QWR quotient in the voting tabulation somewhere.

Sorry, Greg, but I am one of the (supposedly) sentient beings who hear this album and think, "This as good as anything in the Top 100--as good as anything in the Top 10." With my first listen I'll never forget the feeling I had as all my blood drained from my head into my gut as I realized what a privilege I was having to be listening to this masterful work of dedicated prog artists (most of whom had been founding members of Änglagård). To this day I consider it as great an artistic achievement as any of the top 20, including Close to the Edge,  Io sono nato libero, Godbluff, or Larks' Tongues in Aspic. An amazing album.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 15:05
I hate the fact that so many people really and truly think that prog died in 1977--that nothing of originality or merit has been created by the entire species since then! As if today's humans have no inspiration or do not put in the work to hone their craft. 

I know of many young artists that work their asses off--who create highly original new music--many of whom have no idea of the references I use when I compare their sounds and styles, riffs and themes to albums, songs, or artists of the past. 

If everything is "derivative" then, everything is derivative--including the classical-, folk-, blues-, jazz-, psychedelia-, and technology- usurping "masters" of the 1960s and 1970s!
Drew Fisher
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gr8dane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 16:12
No gripe, couldn't care less.
Top hundred is cool to look at, but I doubt there are more than 10 of those 100,on my top 100.
The only top 100 worth a damn ,is my own.
So there :-) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 16:20
Biggest gripe?  That I'm not on it.  (I'm on guitar, Denny on Rick bass).  

We are playing "The Gates of Delirium" in this photo, note-for-note, just to warm up.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 17:10
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I def think albums like blacksstar, abbey road and related should be included. They have the ratings, apparently they just aren’t prog enough?


As far as this website is concerned, the "Proto Prog" and "Prog Related" categories are not prog rock, so they're not included on the top 100.

But I would disagree with the notion that jazz fusion or the various prog metal categories shouldn't be included. Some jazz fusion has a lot of prog rock influence (e.g., Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior) - as in, the music sounds like fusion of jazz and prog, not simply jazz and rock. And metal is a subgenre of rock, so as far as I'm concerned, a prog metal band is a kind of prog rock band. May not be your cup of tea, but removing prog metal would make as much sense as removing bands who aren't symphonic enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 17:17
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Jazz is Jazz.
Metal is Metal.
Prog is Prog.

Those three genres are very close to my heart but they are separate genres.

I doubt Close To The Edge appears on any jazz or metal "best of" list. 

This is problematic as it keeps some great LP's off the Top 100. Keep those artists on the site but off the chart!!! Like The Beatles. They are on the site but I don't see Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road on the list...

Keep the Top 100 Prog!!!



Exactly!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 18:02
Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I def think albums like blacksstar, abbey road and related should be included. They have the ratings, apparently they just aren’t prog enough?


As far as this website is concerned, the "Proto Prog" and "Prog Related" categories are not prog rock, so they're not included on the top 100.

But I would disagree with the notion that jazz fusion or the various prog metal categories shouldn't be included. Some jazz fusion has a lot of prog rock influence (e.g., Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior) - as in, the music sounds like fusion of jazz and prog, not simply jazz and rock. And metal is a subgenre of rock, so as far as I'm concerned, a prog metal band is a kind of prog rock band. May not be your cup of tea, but removing prog metal would make as much sense as removing bands who aren't symphonic enough.


I agree, I’m all for fusion and prog metal being included. Remember, we are progarchives, not progrockarchives. Why should an album like images and words which is one of the most influential prog albums ever be excluded?

Edited by dougmcauliffe - February 18 2020 at 18:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 19:00
I don't have any.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 19:16
No major gripes,,,but like some I'm not sure why some jazz and metal things are on there ahead of actual prog rock lp's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 19:37
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I def think albums like blacksstar, abbey road and related should be included. They have the ratings, apparently they just aren’t prog enough?


As far as this website is concerned, the "Proto Prog" and "Prog Related" categories are not prog rock, so they're not included on the top 100.

But I would disagree with the notion that jazz fusion or the various prog metal categories shouldn't be included. Some jazz fusion has a lot of prog rock influence (e.g., Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior) - as in, the music sounds like fusion of jazz and prog, not simply jazz and rock. And metal is a subgenre of rock, so as far as I'm concerned, a prog metal band is a kind of prog rock band. May not be your cup of tea, but removing prog metal would make as much sense as removing bands who aren't symphonic enough.


I agree, I’m all for fusion and prog metal being included. Remember, we are progarchives, not progrockarchives. Why should an album like images and words which is one of the most influential prog albums ever be excluded?


The description in the About ProgArchives does state "... with the goal of providing extensive Progression Rock information." That said, I am fine with jazz rock fusion and prog metal categorized as types of progressive rock.

For me, it's when something like Kind of Blue is included. It's not fusion, but Miles Davis is on PA for his fusion stuff. Unfortunately it's not possible to tag albums separately from the artist here.

One of my favorite albums from last year is Love Remains by Tal Wilkenfeld. It's currently 52 in top 2019 albums on PA. But it's not a progressive rock album. Her previous album is a good jazz rock fusion album so she's on PA.
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