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Short-ish iconic studio albums 70s
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LAM-SGC View Drop Down
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Points: 1550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2020 at 15:57
Another example of what I mean is Red, imo the best KC album, but also if I'm not mistaken (and I might well be ;) ) the shortest KC studio album of the 70s, just a few seconds under 40 minutes.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

If I recall correctly, shorter sides also meant better sound levels (on vinyl).  So bands that were defining themselves by great sound as well as great musicianship would not want to put too much material on each side, which would decrease the sound quality of the recording as well.  And I'm sure someone here will let me know if I'm in error.  :)  
 

No, not in error. (:
  Oh, thank you.  I thought I remembered it from those days.  Something younger people might not have been aware of....also, there was a HUGE surge in interest in high quality audio with many people spending big money on great sound systems to play this music.  So that would certainly have been a consideration of the progressive bands as far as what their audiences would hear.  We also would play back music on tiny speakers, too, in the recording studio, to hear music as it's worst, as many people would hear it that way, but it sure was fun to hear tracks on the best available gear.  :)
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

This thread has taken an interesting turn, but I realise I haven't explained myself properly. So let me do it by way of comparison
Yes - Fragile - about 41 mins
Yet their iconic CTTE only about 37.
Same as DP Machine Head, short in comparison to albums close to it by release.
Neil Young's iconic Harvest 37 mins but On The Beach almost 40 mins.
My point was that it seems that so many iconic albums were shorter than albums of the same period by that artist. And maybe that shortness by 3,4 or 5,6 minutes had something to do with these albums becoming iconic. I don't know, just a germinating theory.
 

I think you are onto something

Brain Salad Surgery is not generally considered 'Iconic' and that perhaps because it has too many tracks. If has been kept to just 2 tracks (or 4 if you count KE9 as 3 tracks) then it would have been better..

Side One would then have been
1) Toccata (7 minutes)
2) Karn Evil 1st Impression (13 minutes)
Side Two
3) Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression (7 minutes)
4) Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression (9 minutes)

I would have added the song Brain Salad Surgery (recorded at the same sessions) at the end to even out the sides . Would have been so much better and potentially a top 20 album on PA at least.

As a side note I would also be tempted to 'integrate' Toccata into Karn Evil 9 and put it between 1st Impression and Second Impression ( which then becomes 3rd impression). 
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I don´t think shortness has nothing to do about what album comes iconic. 

Examples:
Jethro Tull: Thick As a Brick 43:46 
Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50
Led Zeppelin IV 42:34
the Beatles: Abbey Road 47:03

And I haven´t mentioned any iconic doubles.


Edited by Mortte - February 18 2020 at 01:54
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LAM-SGC View Drop Down
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Points: 1550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2020 at 02:37
I'm not making a concrete statement. As I said, it is just a slight theory, just based on a few of My favourite iconic albums, which are all shorter than the albums before and after them.
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LAM-SGC View Drop Down
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That reminds me, I must check the lebgth of Wind & Wuthering.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

I realise the restrictions of a vinyl LP in the 70s, but you seem to have missed the point I'm making.
 
Standard vinyl duration in the 70's for UK and North Am was between 35 and 45 mins (rarely more), but continental Europe saw many albums below 30 minutes (France, Italy, most notably), but in Germany, Klaus Schulze came close to 60 mins with Timewind.
 
in the 70's, MCA sued Elton John when his last album for them was under 30-mins (if memory serves in was +/- 27-mins) and won... Soo EJ found a couple more bottom-of-drawer tracks and slapped them on the album.
 
Longer disc-album duration was certainly a problem in the 90's (some felt obliged to fill it to the brim), and it produced weariness. Thankfully, the return of vinyl (not a fan of the media's return, but it does have some advantages) made the albums shorter again. 
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50
 
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50
 
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.

I'm one of those people.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Genesis: Selling England by the Pound: 53:50
 
some people would say they could have shaved a few minutes off by removing "More Fool Me" and making it even more iconic.
These are personal opinions that has nothing to do is some album iconic or not. Personally I prefer Deep Purple In Rock (lenght 43:30) to Machine Head, but I really admit Machine Head is more iconic when there´s Smoke On the Water & Highway Star.
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As urban myth suggests, the 80 min CD format was fixed by the sony corporations head honcho wanting his favourite peice of music fitting on one disc. The beethoven? Piece came in at just over 79 minutes...wonder if more could have been possible?
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Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

As urban myth suggests, the 80 min CD format was fixed by the sony corporations head honcho wanting his favourite peice of music fitting on one disc. The beethoven? Piece came in at just over 79 minutes...wonder if more could have been possible?
 

Urban legend IMHO

First when the CDs were invented and marketed, they could only hold 74 minutes of music. It was later extended to 79'54"
Second, Sony would've had to agree with this with Phillips, who was the co-inventor of the CD. 
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I think a lot of the releases today that are over 70 minutes have a lot of filler. Also, bands had less time to record in the studio in the 70's. They were limited by what the record company would pay for studio time, where now everyone can record on a laptop at home. And musicians/bands back then released an album a year, on average. Compare that
With Tool who release an album every ten years.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 18 2020 at 07:57
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LAM-SGC View Drop Down
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Nursery Cryme - 39 minutes! My point exactly.
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Grave New World is only about 36 minutes, but packs more styles and more genius than most double albums.
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How about mirage and per un amico, if I recall 37 and 34 minutes respectfully
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Grave New World is only about 36 minutes, but packs more styles and more genius than most double albums.
  Love that record!  
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Many Italian prog titles comes to mind.
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Uomo di Pezza by Le Orme is short, but when I listen to it with closed eyes - it seems to lasts much longer, but yes it fits many Italian albums, for example on Storia di Un Minuto this "minute" takes something about 34 minutes.  
+ again Brasilian Modulo 1000 has 32 minutes of psych doom prog


Edited by HarryAngel746 - February 18 2020 at 11:51
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RDM's Contamination (1975) at 36:07.
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