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" Big Six " 1980 and forward

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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 04:01
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've heard people say TMV aren't really prog though.
I've also heard people say The Mars Volta aren't really Neo-Prog when I've included them in my Neo-Prog polls. Wink


@AFlowerKingCrimson - who says TMV are not progressive? Anyway, the two other classification for them are experimetal rock (does them justice I think) and post-hardcore (don't know much about this genre).

@Psychedelic Paul - you're still trolling with TMV being neo-prog? Aren't you bored yet? Everyone else is. Just check how many people disagreed in your neo-prog threads. 
It's okay to disagree with me. It's all good fun. Having disagreements over prog is all part of what makes Prog Archives such a great place to be. Smile
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 04:11
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've heard people say TMV aren't really prog though.
I've also heard people say The Mars Volta aren't really Neo-Prog when I've included them in my Neo-Prog polls. Wink


@AFlowerKingCrimson - who says TMV are not progressive? Anyway, the two other classification for them are experimetal rock (does them justice I think) and post-hardcore (don't know much about this genre).

@Psychedelic Paul - you're still trolling with TMV being neo-prog? Aren't you bored yet? Everyone else is. Just check how many people disagreed in your neo-prog threads. 
It's okay to disagree with me. It's all good fun. Having disagreements over prog is all part of what makes Prog Archives such a great place to be. Smile


If I were the only one disagreeing, that would not be a problem, but I'm not, many disagreed.
That is why I think you are trolling with your neo-prog threads. If not , it means it's a situation in which you think you are right and everyone else is wrong or you simply do not know (or understand) what neo-prog is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 07:31
Neo prog is a genre I refuse to recognise....most of the bands pigeon holed thus are symphonic prog or prog metal/heavy prog...Am I alone in this train of thought?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 07:43
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Neo prog is a genre I refuse to recognise....most of the bands pigeon holed thus are symphonic prog or prog metal/heavy prog...Am I alone in this train of thought?


Hmmm, I don’t necessarily agree but I do think it’s the most vague genre label on the site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 08:55
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Olape Olape wrote:

Porcupine Tree
Opeth
Riverside
Phideaux
Anekdoten 
Beardfish

That's a good list if you are deliberately jumping over the 80's and 90's(with the exception of Anekdoten and maybe Opeth who were around back then). With the exception of Porcupine Tree none of those bands are more important than Marillion, IQ, Anglagard, The Flower Kings or Spock's Beard especially from a historical perspective but Opeth certainly rivals PT these days in terms of influence and popularity. 

You’re right, but its a list of six of my personal favs. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 09:11
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Neo prog is a genre I refuse to recognise....most of the bands pigeon holed thus are symphonic prog or prog metal/heavy prog...Am I alone in this train of thought?


Hmmm, I don’t necessarily agree but I do think it’s the most vague genre label on the site.

Well. Just taken months to rip all my cd's. And for those cd's I haven't heard I placed into my own provisional genre of "we shall see" unless I already have an album by the band...however some genesis stuff is under the genre "pop crap". Mind you I really hate the discontinuous mind...so I think I will have to place every track into its correct genre...might take a while...

Edited by M27Barney - February 03 2020 at 09:13
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:11
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've heard people say TMV aren't really prog though.
I've also heard people say The Mars Volta aren't really Neo-Prog when I've included them in my Neo-Prog polls. Wink


@AFlowerKingCrimson - who says TMV are not progressive? Anyway, the two other classification for them are experimetal rock (does them justice I think) and post-hardcore (don't know much about this genre).

@Psychedelic Paul - you're still trolling with TMV being neo-prog? Aren't you bored yet? Everyone else is. Just check how many people disagreed in your neo-prog threads. 

Well to some there's a difference between prog and progressive. Yes, Genesis, KC, SB, PT, ELP, Rush, PF, etc is prog. Progressive might be stuff that is not typical prog rock. Maybe more experimental or stuff that is more literally progressive as opposed to bands who are trying to sound like old prog. TMV are very progressive but not typical prog if you know what I mean. Kind of the same way that krautrock, post rock, electronic and fusion are progressive but not prog rock(or Prog rock with the capital p).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 10:13
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Neo prog is a genre I refuse to recognise....most of the bands pigeon holed thus are symphonic prog or prog metal/heavy prog...Am I alone in this train of thought?

I get your perspective but the "Neo Prog" sound, as governed here on PA, is, to my mind & ears, one of the easier ones to distinguish! The problem comes when you hear bands that are obviously inspired by and/or imitating in a "retro-" style but not using the lush, romantic soundscapes used by Trick of the Tail/Wind & Wuthering Genesis--like ELP, Camel, Yes, VDGG, Gentle Giant, or Crimson imitators. Technically, these should also be "neo progressive" bands--or perhaps "retro-prog" bands--but are not often classified as such. What is an innately discerning, language-using human being to do?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:03
Perhaps the modern Big Six should be more relegated to individual artists--especially since there are several who seem to have had a huge impact on the modern prog revival. For example:
Roine Stolt (Kaipa, The Flower Kings, Hasse Bruniusson, The Tangent, Transatlantic, Karmakanic, The Sea Within, et al.) 
Steven Wilson (Re-mastering of so many old classics, producer, engineer, & mastering of many modern releases, Porcupine Tree, No-Man, Jansen/Barbieri/Karn, Bass Communion, Blackfield, Storm Corrosion, six solo studio albums, et al.)
Mikael Åkerfeldt (Opeth, Ghost, Storm Corrosion, Devin Townsend, O.S.I. Insahn, Bloodbath, Katatonia, Edge of Sanity, et al.)
Mattias Olsson (Änglagård, Anima Morte, Nekromant, The Opium Cartel, VLY, Kaukasus, White Willow, Celestine, Reminder, Brighteye Bison, Deadwood Forest, Pineforest Crunch, AK-Momo, Necromonkey, Walrus, Nanook of the North, Pixie Ninja, Galasphere 347, Therion, Rhys Marsh, Weserbergland, et al.) 
Francesco Zago (founder of AltrOck/Fading Records, Yugen, Not a Good Sign, Spaitklang, Empty Days, et al.)

Omar Rodríguez-López (four At The Drive-In albums, nearly 50 solo albums, 14 The Mars Volta releases, John Frusciante, and engineering help on many others)
Mariuz Duda (10 Riverside albums, Indukti, five Lunatic Soul releases)
Jacob Holm-Lupo (White Willow, The Opium Cartel, Wobbler, Weserbergland, et al.)

I would argue for the first five without question and then leave it up to you to decide from among the other three as who belongs in a "Big Six"
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:10
^ You left off Mike Portnoy, Neal Morse and Devin Townsend. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fracturematt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:16
Pink Floyd, Leprous, Contortionist, Opeth, Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, Tool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:22
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^ You left off Mike Portnoy, Neal Morse and Devin Townsend. 

Good point(s)! Though I'm ignorant as to what Mike Portnoy has done other than DT and Transatlantic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:41
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^ You left off Mike Portnoy, Neal Morse and Devin Townsend. 

Good point(s)! Though I'm ignorant as to what Mike Portnoy has done other than DT and Transatlantic.

A lot of stuff. For prog Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors. Also, sons of Apollo(more prog metal though). I'd have to look it up myself to discover what else but I know he has done other stuff(but I think mostly metal and rock; I think I(we)covered most of his pure prog stuff).


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - February 03 2020 at 11:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 11:44
I still class IQ as symphonic prog, as is Pendragon. Pallas is heavy prog..Twelfth Night possibly symph/heavy prog. Daga Band, and Trekellian Skyway were definately symph prog...both very obscure....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 12:09
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I still class IQ as symphonic prog, as is Pendragon. Pallas is heavy prog..Twelfth Night possibly symph/heavy prog. Daga Band, and Trekellian Skyway were definately symph prog...both very obscure....

I agree with both of your posts on this.....to me IQ and some others are symph prog ....never really understood the neo prog genre that much. Most of the neo prog I own sounds like just a newer version of symph prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 12:11
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^ You left off Mike Portnoy, Neal Morse and Devin Townsend. 

Good point(s)! Though I'm ignorant as to what Mike Portnoy has done other than DT and Transatlantic.

A lot of stuff. For prog Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors. Also, sons of Apollo(more prog metal though). I'd have to look it up myself to discover what else but I know he has done other stuff(but I think mostly metal and rock; I think I(we)covered most of his pure prog stuff).


I like his hard rock project with Richie Kotzen - The Winery Dogs.
I like Flying Colors.
I don't like Sons of Apollo though, very bland and generic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 12:14
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I've heard people say TMV aren't really prog though.
I've also heard people say The Mars Volta aren't really Neo-Prog when I've included them in my Neo-Prog polls. Wink


@AFlowerKingCrimson - who says TMV are not progressive? Anyway, the two other classification for them are experimetal rock (does them justice I think) and post-hardcore (don't know much about this genre).

@Psychedelic Paul - you're still trolling with TMV being neo-prog? Aren't you bored yet? Everyone else is. Just check how many people disagreed in your neo-prog threads. 
It's okay to disagree with me. It's all good fun. Having disagreements over prog is all part of what makes Prog Archives such a great place to be. Smile


If I were the only one disagreeing, that would not be a problem, but I'm not, many disagreed.
That is why I think you are trolling with your neo-prog threads. If not , it means it's a situation in which you think you are right and everyone else is wrong or you simply do not know (or understand) what neo-prog is.
As I've said before, Neo-Prog to me is a chronological definition, meaning any post-1970's prog bands, but I don't mind at all if PA members disagree with that definition. It doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Far from it. It's just a difference of opinion that's all. That's just the way we used to categorise prog when I used to edit my own music site. We had just two primary genres for Prog-Rock:- Progressive Rock and Neo-Prog, divided between classic 1970's prog bands in the Progressive Rock section and modern post-1970's prog bands in the Neo-Prog section. I'm not necessarily saying that was ideal or correct, but it made things a whole lot less complicated. In total though, across the whole music site, we had 20 primary genres and 200 sub-genres of music, so we weren't exactly short of music genres to choose from. If I was running the site now though, I'd add most of the prog sub-genres that are on Prog Archives.  For a specialist prog site like ProgArchives, I think it's wonderful to have all of these additional prog categories here on PA, some of which I'd never even heard of before I arrived here last September. I used to think RIO was Prog-Rock from Brazil, but I know differently now. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - February 03 2020 at 12:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2020 at 13:07
It seems to me that the difference between neo-prog and retro-prog is that retro-prog use only musical instruments that were available to artists of the classic period, whereas neo-prog use contemporaneous musical instruments.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 00:46
Neo prog started as New Symphonic prog. back in the eighties only the likes of ELP, Yes , Genesis were still recognised as 'prog' so IQ, Marillion , Twelth Night and Pallas were the new prog bands (or Neo to make it sound a bit fancy) . There wasn't any other prog imo. 

The 90's brought a raft of retro symphonic bands such as Par Lindh Project , Anglagard and Anekdoten who were coming more from an 'art rock' back background rather than the stylistic approach adopted by the eighties prog bands. There is a clear difference but its all putting things in boxes as usual! Generally it could all be considered Symphonic as M27Barney suggests.

I also think that music freed itself up to some extent post 80's. The eighties was dominated by MTV and corporate interest. 90's and onwards a lot of people in music just did what the f**k they wanted. It was and still is largely very healthy but there are still bands that will follow the Yes, Genesis approach to the letter and therefore those can be clearly identified as Neo Prog. It can be tricky though defining a band like Big Big Train who apparently sit in the internal limbo of Crossover Prog never to be recognised as a fully grown up prog band. I'm not sure what they did to deserve that but hey ho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2020 at 02:08
^ aye. BBT are a good example but my cunning stunt of placing every track into a genre will negotiate the nooks and crannies of this particular valley of moist despair...😎
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