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Why is prog rock always called "snooty"?

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I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 09:49
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

In a recent poll, hip-pop was the most disliked music by members of this forum. Why? Could it be that to middle-aged white men living in the suburbs, the stories of black urban youth are irrelevant?
 
Truth be told, prog fans are far less concerned about relevancy than other music fans. After all, a song about an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a manticore, is not relevant to anyone.
 
 
 
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 09:53
^ LOL  
 
Btw, did you check with Psychedelic Paul?


Edited by SteveG - December 09 2019 at 09:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 10:18
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 10:37
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

In a recent poll, hip-pop was the most disliked music by members of this forum. Why? Could it be that to middle-aged white men living in the suburbs, the stories of black urban youth are irrelevant?
 
Truth be told, prog fans are far less concerned about relevancy than other music fans. After all, a song about an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a manticore, is not relevant to anyone.
 
 
 
True! The lyrics might be totally irrelevant to our everyday lives, but if the music's good, I'll listen to it. Wink
 
It reminds me of the "Olias of Sunhillow" concept album by Jon Anderson which I've just reviewed. The story of space colonists fleeing a doomed planet was irrelevant to my everyday life, but I found the music to be truly uplifting, inspirational and spiritual. Jon Anderson reaches the parts that other musicians can only aspire to, AND he played all of the instruments on the album. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 09 2019 at 10:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 11:14
yeah, you're so right. It reminds me of the last album review I wrote too, that was also totally irrelevant to my everyday life and utterly unrelated to this topic.

In fact come to think of it every sodding album I've ever listened to has been utterly irrelevant to my everyday life, as was every book I've ever read, every film, play, tv drama and sitcom I've ever seen, together with every painting, sculpture and bloody statue I've ever gawped at.

Funny old world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 11:31
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

yeah, you're so right. It reminds me of the last album review I wrote too, that was also totally irrelevant to my everyday life and utterly unrelated to this topic.

In fact come to think of it every sodding album I've ever listened to has been utterly irrelevant to my everyday life, as was every book I've ever read, every film, play, tv drama and sitcom I've ever seen, together with every painting, sculpture and bloody statue I've ever gawped at.

Funny old world.
This topic went off-topic a long time ago when we started talking about Rap/Hip Hop, when the thread was supposed to be all about Prog-Rock. Smile
 
Come to think of it, Jon Anderson's "Olias of Sunhillow" album DOES have some relevance to my everyday life, because it's all about new beginnings and starting a new life elsewhere, just as I have done recently. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 09 2019 at 11:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 12:04
Oh, lucky us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 12:16
LOL Rof!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 13:37
^^ I don't know who or what "Rof" is, but Dean's remark made me laugh too, even though I was the butt of his grumpy Rick Wakeman humour. Smile

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 09 2019 at 13:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 13:59
^Now that I come to think of it, I guess I now have a truly wise, clever answer to the thread title question Smile:
 
"Why is prog rock always called "snootiest"?

Because of the well-known grumpy old humourists.... LOLLOL


Edited by Tillerman88 - December 09 2019 at 14:00
The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 16:55
Because people who call prog rock snooty are pretentious. Wink
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 21:38
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Huckabee Huckabee wrote:


Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

After all, if one has lost their job from a
factory and struggling to put food on the table, then a song about an
armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing
over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a
manticore
Bah. Not only that Punk was nothing new musically, but unlike
the Sixties mod movement that was the change which came from below, i.e.
from the youth whose bands were playing those R&B standards on more
powerful and aggressive way and hence brought the new genre called
'Rock' [with capital 'R' and without 'roll'] to the world, Punk was
created in the heights of British music press and being imposed to the
kids. Thus, "Rotten" in fact was nothing less fictional character than
an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano.

 
This doesn't ring "true" to me. Since when did the music industry create aggressive new music that challenged the status quo? The music industry is more about taking aggressive new music and watering it down for the masses.
 
 
 


Those must have been different times. Can you imagine Backstreet Boys just going in a totally left field direction and becoming all about experimentation? Because that's what the Beatles did. Prog rock was mainstream in the 70s. So was thrash metal in the 80s. OK, not mainstream like Def Leppard or Bon Jovi but Metallica and Megadeth were charting well. There was no industry pressure on Metallica to get friends haircuts, they did it themselves in the pursuit of bigger commercial success. So it's more that today the music industry has become completely risk averse which figures seeing as consumers think paying a few dollars for an album is a big risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 21:49
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:


I thought the real reason why punk rockers rejected prog and classic rock in general was because of its irrelevancy to their lives, and this is a valid criticism. After all, if one has lost their job from a factory and struggling to put food on the table, then a song about an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a manticore, will seem quite unimportant to them. And when rich rock stars sing about the concerns of ordinary folk, it can seen quite phony, as if they are using the plights of the poor to get richer.

In a recent poll, hip-pop was the most disliked music by members of this forum. Why? Could it be that to middle-aged white men living in the suburbs, the stories of black urban youth are irrelevant?

It is interesting to note that Van der Graaf Generator managed to avoid the scorn given to other prog rockers. Could that be because Peter Hammill tends to write about the human condition, and thus maintain relevancy to those who reject other prog? And because Van der Graaf Generator were never really big, they also avoided being seen as phony.

 



Traditionally, people struggling in poverty embrace escapism because listening to angry, depressing music is not going to make them feel better nor make their poverty go away. I know this because where I live, we have endemic and intergenerational poverty of the like the First World has not seen in a long time and the poor prefer glamorous commercial entertainers and it's the educated snobs like me who want more realism in movies.

As discussed a few pages earlier in the thread, punk as a movement would have existed with or without the events of 1976. But Malcolm McLaren made a concerted effort to put together a punk rock band and pivot them into the mainstream. Again, this is not unusual. Guns N Roses was assiduously promoted by Alan Niven, they didn't build up their success brick by brick the way Metallica is. That is why both Sex Pistols and GNR dissipated pretty soon while many classic rock and prog rock bands keep playing as well as many metal or hardcore bands that organically came together and rose through the ranks. Yes, there was a legitimate critique contained within punk (though insisting on realist lyrics seems like a very limiting, if not boring, way to make music to me) but it needed an external push as well to rise to the top. The music press had always hated prog and in punk they saw a vehicle to both bring it down as well as inject their own left wing politics into music. Neither of which is wrong. Just pointing out the help and favour punk did receive at the time. The fact that this critique had limitations when applied to mainstream music was made clear when within less a decade, rock had embraced over the top superficiality and excess via glam metal in a way prog never had. There was, is and always will be a market for excess because excess is entertaining.

Edited by rogerthat - December 09 2019 at 21:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2019 at 23:57
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Huckabee Huckabee wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

After all, if one has lost their job from a factory and struggling to put food on the table, then a song about an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a manticore
Bah. Not only that Punk was nothing new musically, but unlike the Sixties mod movement that was the change which came from below, i.e. from the youth whose bands were playing those R&B standards on more powerful and aggressive way and hence brought the new genre called 'Rock' [with capital 'R' and without 'roll'] to the world, Punk was created in the heights of British music press and being imposed to the kids. Thus, "Rotten" in fact was nothing less fictional character than an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano.
 
This doesn't ring "true" to me. Since when did the music industry create aggressive new music that challenged the status quo? The music industry is more about taking aggressive new music and watering it down for the masses.
 
 
 
 

The ''Status Quo'' wasn't making money anymore although funnily enough Status Quo were with Rockin All Over The World. It's all about money. The 'music industry' is actually a horrid term in itself but sadly very true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 01:32
Rod Stewart backed by the London philly is de-riguer at the moment it seems....funny old world...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 04:01
^ To quote Dean: "oh, lucky us."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 04:29
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:



As discussed a few pages earlier in the thread, punk as a movement would have existed with or without the events of 1976. But Malcolm McLaren made a concerted effort to put together a punk rock band and pivot them into the mainstream. Again, this is not unusual. Guns N Roses was assiduously promoted by Alan Niven, they didn't build up their success brick by brick the way Metallica is. That is why both Sex Pistols and GNR dissipated pretty soon while many classic rock and prog rock bands keep playing as well as many metal or hardcore bands that organically came together and rose through the ranks. Yes, there was a legitimate critique contained within punk (though insisting on realist lyrics seems like a very limiting, if not boring, way to make music to me) but it needed an external push as well to rise to the top. The music press had always hated prog and in punk they saw a vehicle to both bring it down as well as inject their own left wing politics into music. Neither of which is wrong. Just pointing out the help and favour punk did receive at the time. The fact that this critique had limitations when applied to mainstream music was made clear when within less a decade, rock had embraced over the top superficiality and excess via glam metal in a way prog never had. There was, is and always will be a market for excess because excess is entertaining.
GnR broke up mainly due to Axle Rose's ego and need to control and own the name of the band, in which he got the other band members, including guitarist Slash, to legally sign off on. After the fact, this alienated Slash who quit the band as a result. As for the Sex Pistols, I defer to this blog I found. This is mostly how I've understood it but I'll leave it to the punk experts to verify its complete accuracy:

 

 
"Why did the Sex Pistols break up? By Laurence Fisher
 
 
 
 
I just want to say that the SexPistols were not thrown together by McLaren. That’s his lie that he banged us over the head with in The Great Rock n Roll Swindle movie.
The Sex Pistols predate Malcom McClaren.
Steve Jones and Paul Cook formed a band in 74 called The Strand and later became known as Cutie Jones and The Sex Pistols. Jones was the front man, they eventually got Glen Matlock in, and Jones began harassing McLaren to manage them, which he was reluctant to do. He gave in. Jones expressed that he wasn’t comfortable being the front man and wanted to concentrate guitar, so they auditioned. Vivian Westwood told Malcom that he should audition that John guy who comes into the shop. She meant John Ritchie (sid Vicious) buthe thought she meant John Lydon.
John Lydon who was quickly nicknamed Rotten by Steve Jones because of his teeth, did a good audition, and joined the band. They wrote their own songs, with no input from Malcom. John already had the Punk imafe, green hair at that point, and clothes held together with safety pins that Westwood later turned into a fashion range.
Steve is a great guitarist and Paul is a great drummer. Steve Jones guitar work is amazing on Never Mind The Bollocks, it’s one of the main reasons the album is so successful and highly thought of. He builds up loads of tracks of his guitar on the songs, doing different things, that come together beautifully. He was encouraged to do this by the producer but he makes it his own. They are his creations. Mini guitar orchestras.

I’m putting this dow as I see a lot of people rattling of that old crap about how the Sex Pistols were manufactured and most of them couldn’t really play etc…
It all comes from the Great Rock n Roll Swindle. Malcom’s fantasy of his role with the band.

He did help them to some extent but he hindered them more.

They became really famous after The Bill Grundy TV affair. John says sh*t and then Steve say f**king a lot.

Malcom wasn’t there, it wasn’t planned, it was just John and Steve being themselves. Malcom was furious, he thought they’d blown it, their career in tatters, until he saw the newspapers the next day, and saw how he could exploit the coverage. He then tried to make out it was all his idea.

The Sex Pistols split was mainly due to Malcom, he pitted the band members against each other, both Glen and John have gone on to say that Malcom was whispering things in their ears. Steve and Paul were a unit. John pushed out Glen, brought in Sid Vicious, hoping for an ally. John and Sid verses Steve and Paul sort of thing.

Unfortunately Sid met Nancy Spungen, who was living poison. You’ll not find anyone who has or had a good word to say about her. Sid descended into heavy heroin addiction. The band tried to rescue him, by getting rid of Nancy but she was like a bad stain. They gave up. Malcom loved the whole Sid is a rock n roll cliche, like Keith Moon, heading to a spectacular disaster.

Malcom should have done everyuthing he could to help Sid but he just exploited him. Look at what he did in The Great Rock n Roll Swindle. Totally exploits Sid. He even sold dolls of Sid in a coffin. How could he do that?

Going back a bit, the band were never going to survive all this and after the last gig at Winterland, they left John behind. Literally and deliberately dumped him. He had no air ticket, no money and had to get on the phone to Virgin and ask for help to get home.

Malcom then planned to take Steve and Paul to america to have a meeting with Sid to see if they could coax him into becoming the lead singer of the band. He died before they got there.

Who knows if that would of worked. Without Malcom, maybe.

I’m glad they didn’t continue with Tenpole Tudor. I like those songs with him on. Who Killed Bambi is a classic and I love that version of Rock around the Clock but that was enough. They were funny and worked in their own little bubble. He was actually supposed to join the band permanently. There are some interesting interviews from him and the others about his inclusion in the band.

Branson later tried to get John interested in joining Steve and Paul in The Professionals. He played John their demos. He hated them and he stuck with PIL.

I quite like The Professionals personally but I can see why it wasn’t for John.

Malcom tried to ban John from using the name Johnny Rotten, claiming he had invented the name and he had created him.

Steve Jones gave him that name, and Johnny Rotten created himself. John took this to court and won the right to use the name Johnny Rotten and then just to spite everyone and show Malcom he didn’t need it anyway, continued his career as John Lydon.

It’s such a shame the Sex Pistols split up, with better management they’d have gone on, I’m sure, the original four members, they had a few more albums in them.

Glen wasn’t the only great writer, Steve wrote some great tunes for the Sex Pistols. Just as many.

Here’s a quote from Jonesy - “I’m tired of Glen Matlock saying he was the songwriter for the Sex Pistols. I co-wrote as many songs… but I don’t go shouting about it.”

I wanted to dispel some of the myths I see here about the Sex Pistols. Watch The Filth and the Fury, read John’s books, read Steve’s book, look at the facts, don’t churn out Malcolm McLaren’s great lie.

The Sex Pistols were a band like any other band in the sense that they wanted to play live, they wanted to entertain, they wanted to get famous, they wanted to make the best records they possibly good and after a bunch of hard work, finally be mega rich, and live comfortably in their twilight years.

Loads of people heaped sh*t on them when they did their reunion tours. They’re only doing for the money, what a sell out, blah blah blah.

First off I’m sure they had a great time doing those tours, playing those amazing songs, getting all that adulation, it must have been wonderful.

But even if they had just done it for the money, which is an absurd idea when you think about it, “I’m not enjoying this at all, I’m just doing it for the money.” But even if they did, then good on them for finally making some proper money out of something that should have been a gold mine to them and deservedly so.

There was of course some manufacturing with The Sex Pistols, like their is with any band, it’s the entertainment business and strengthening your brand is an essential part of success.

The Beatles did the hair and suits and the bowing ect… that part of them was manufactured, but the rest was them, they were clever enough to allow some direction into their act.

The Sex Pistols were happy to take Vivienne Westwood’s clothes, which she’d stolen from John anyway, to strengthen their image.

Anyway rant over, don’t mean to be disrespectful to all those of you who get it so wrong, but I’m a great defender of the Sexy Pistols. The more you do it the better you get at it.

God Save the Queen, my son."



Edited by SteveG - December 10 2019 at 04:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 06:01
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

As for the Sex Pistols, I defer to this blog I found. This is mostly how I've understood it but I'll leave it to the punk experts to verify its complete accuracy:

Why did the Sex Pistols break up? By Laurence Fisher

I just want to say that the SexPistols were not thrown together by McLaren. That’s his lie that he banged us over the head with in The Great Rock n Roll Swindle movie.
The Sex Pistols predate Malcom McClaren.
Steve Jones and Paul Cook formed a band in 74 called The Strand and later became known as Cutie Jones and The Sex Pistols. Jones was the front man, they eventually got Glen Matlock in, and Jones began harassing McLaren to manage them, which he was reluctant to do. He gave in. Jones expressed that he wasn’t comfortable being the front man and wanted to concentrate guitar, so they auditioned. Vivian Westwood told Malcom that he should audition that John guy who comes into the shop. She meant John Ritchie (sid Vicious) buthe thought she meant John Lydon.
John Lydon who was quickly nicknamed Rotten by Steve Jones because of his teeth, did a good audition, and joined the band. They wrote their own songs, with no input from Malcom. John already had the Punk imafe, green hair at that point, and clothes held together with safety pins that Westwood later turned into a fashion range.
Steve is a great guitarist and Paul is a great drummer. Steve Jones guitar work is amazing on Never Mind The Bollocks, it’s one of the main reasons the album is so successful and highly thought of. He builds up loads of tracks of his guitar on the songs, doing different things, that come together beautifully. He was encouraged to do this by the producer but he makes it his own. They are his creations. Mini guitar orchestras.

I’m putting this dow as I see a lot of people rattling of that old crap about how the Sex Pistols were manufactured and most of them couldn’t really play etc…
It all comes from the Great Rock n Roll Swindle. Malcom’s fantasy of his role with the band.

He did help them to some extent but he hindered them more.

They became really famous after The Bill Grundy TV affair. John says sh*t and then Steve say f**king a lot.

Malcom wasn’t there, it wasn’t planned, it was just John and Steve being themselves. Malcom was furious, he thought they’d blown it, their career in tatters, until he saw the newspapers the next day, and saw how he could exploit the coverage. He then tried to make out it was all his idea.

The Sex Pistols split was mainly due to Malcom, he pitted the band members against each other, both Glen and John have gone on to say that Malcom was whispering things in their ears. Steve and Paul were a unit. John pushed out Glen, brought in Sid Vicious, hoping for an ally. John and Sid verses Steve and Paul sort of thing.

Unfortunately Sid met Nancy Spungen, who was living poison. You’ll not find anyone who has or had a good word to say about her. Sid descended into heavy heroin addiction. The band tried to rescue him, by getting rid of Nancy but she was like a bad stain. They gave up. Malcom loved the whole Sid is a rock n roll cliche, like Keith Moon, heading to a spectacular disaster.

Malcom should have done everyuthing he could to help Sid but he just exploited him. Look at what he did in The Great Rock n Roll Swindle. Totally exploits Sid. He even sold dolls of Sid in a coffin. How could he do that?

Going back a bit, the band were never going to survive all this and after the last gig at Winterland, they left John behind. Literally and deliberately dumped him. He had no air ticket, no money and had to get on the phone to Virgin and ask for help to get home.

Malcom then planned to take Steve and Paul to america to have a meeting with Sid to see if they could coax him into becoming the lead singer of the band. He died before they got there.

Who knows if that would of worked. Without Malcom, maybe.

I’m glad they didn’t continue with Tenpole Tudor. I like those songs with him on. Who Killed Bambi is a classic and I love that version of Rock around the Clock but that was enough. They were funny and worked in their own little bubble. He was actually supposed to join the band permanently. There are some interesting interviews from him and the others about his inclusion in the band.

Branson later tried to get John interested in joining Steve and Paul in The Professionals. He played John their demos. He hated them and he stuck with PIL.

I quite like The Professionals personally but I can see why it wasn’t for John.

Malcom tried to ban John from using the name Johnny Rotten, claiming he had invented the name and he had created him.

Steve Jones gave him that name, and Johnny Rotten created himself. John took this to court and won the right to use the name Johnny Rotten and then just to spite everyone and show Malcom he didn’t need it anyway, continued his career as John Lydon.

It’s such a shame the Sex Pistols split up, with better management they’d have gone on, I’m sure, the original four members, they had a few more albums in them.

Glen wasn’t the only great writer, Steve wrote some great tunes for the Sex Pistols. Just as many.

Here’s a quote from Jonesy - “I’m tired of Glen Matlock saying he was the songwriter for the Sex Pistols. I co-wrote as many songs… but I don’t go shouting about it.”

I wanted to dispel some of the myths I see here about the Sex Pistols. Watch The Filth and the Fury, read John’s books, read Steve’s book, look at the facts, don’t churn out Malcolm McLaren’s great lie.

The Sex Pistols were a band like any other band in the sense that they wanted to play live, they wanted to entertain, they wanted to get famous, they wanted to make the best records they possibly good and after a bunch of hard work, finally be mega rich, and live comfortably in their twilight years.

Loads of people heaped sh*t on them when they did their reunion tours. They’re only doing for the money, what a sell out, blah blah blah.

First off I’m sure they had a great time doing those tours, playing those amazing songs, getting all that adulation, it must have been wonderful.

But even if they had just done it for the money, which is an absurd idea when you think about it, “I’m not enjoying this at all, I’m just doing it for the money.” But even if they did, then good on them for finally making some proper money out of something that should have been a gold mine to them and deservedly so.

There was of course some manufacturing with The Sex Pistols, like their is with any band, it’s the entertainment business and strengthening your brand is an essential part of success.

The Beatles did the hair and suits and the bowing ect… that part of them was manufactured, but the rest was them, they were clever enough to allow some direction into their act.

The Sex Pistols were happy to take Vivienne Westwood’s clothes, which she’d stolen from John anyway, to strengthen their image.

Anyway rant over, don’t mean to be disrespectful to all those of you who get it so wrong, but I’m a great defender of the Sexy Pistols. The more you do it the better you get at it.

God Save the Queen, my son."



I don't pretend to be an 'expert' (in fact I believe there are probably less than a handful of so-called Punk albums that have endured past their run-off grooves) There's not much in Fisher's version of events that I have an issue with but if you were a talentless succés de scandale hellbent on 'cash from chaos', then McLaren was your perfect manager. What Malcolm surely didn't anticipate was that vestige of integrity, sincerity and originality innate in both his charges Matlock and Lydon who refused to play along or participate in the Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle movie. Matlock (probably the most gifted songwriter) was fired and replaced by Sid Vicious (probably the least gifted mammal) on the suggestion of his buddy, Lydon, who was becoming increasingly paranoid and isolated within the band after being stabbed by a mob circa '77 and felt in need of an ally. Lydon's autobiographies make it abundantly clear he still feels a responsibility for Sid's demise and deeply regrets exposing his pal to a world he wasn't remotely equipped to handle. With or without the pitiful Sid/Nancy sideshow, the Sex Pistols should never have lasted beyond their first four sublime singles which merely reinforces the conclusion that Punk was at best, a singles medium. For me the question is not 'Why did the Sex Pistols Break Up?' but 'How they lasted until Jan 1978 without becoming irredeemably sh*t?'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 06:11
^ Anyone who knows twice as much as I do about punk is an expert in my book. Especially in a forum that's tailored for prog. While music doesn't exist in a vacuum, other's extended knowledge is there for the taking if one really does seek to know about the history of rock music.
 
I'm sure Mr. Fisher's blog is biased in favor of the Pistols, but it does help to dispel the myths that the Pistols were a completely faux group that could neither write music, play their own instruments or were complete puppets of McLaren.


Edited by SteveG - December 10 2019 at 06:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twseel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2019 at 06:50
Strange to see a lot of prog fans here deride punk and hip hop for their dumb, often crude simplicity while still embracing straightforward blues, funk and hard rock, which often built their appeal on the exact same dumb and simple music with fun and relatable hooks and lyrics. It seems there's bit of snootyness preventing them from admitting that they just don't like it when music sounds too harsh or digitized for them! This kind of preference would also perhaps explain why the current prog mainstream sounds the way it does (for better or worse)...
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