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Why is prog rock always called "snooty"? |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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I thought the real reason why punk rockers rejected prog and classic rock in general was because of its irrelevancy to their lives, and this is a valid criticism. After all, if one has lost their job from a factory and struggling to put food on the table, then a song about an armadillo-tank hybrid born from the eruption of a volcano, vanquishing over a variety of fictitious creatures until finally being defeated by a manticore, will seem quite unimportant to them. And when rich rock stars sing about the concerns of ordinary folk, it can seen quite phony, as if they are using the plights of the poor to get richer. In a recent poll, hip-pop was the most disliked music by members of this forum. Why? Could it be that to middle-aged white men living in the suburbs, the stories of black urban youth are irrelevant? It is interesting to note that Van der Graaf Generator managed to avoid the scorn given to other prog rockers. Could that be because Peter Hammill tends to write about the human condition, and thus maintain relevancy to those who reject other prog? And because Van der Graaf Generator were never really big, they also avoided being seen as phony. Edited by I prophesy disaster - December 07 2019 at 10:25 |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Online Points: 13232 |
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As a middle-aged white man living in the suburbs, I would suggest that "the stories of black urban youth are irrelevant" is not at all why hip-hop is derided. I would suggest that it relates more to the lack of instrumentality, the lack of compositional skills, the plinking of three note piano lines throughout songs, the inevitable drum machines, the over-production (seriously, does one need six to ten writers and producers to arrive at this swill?), the reliance on sampling songs from established artists, and the preponderance of "bling and bitches" lyrics ham-handedly muttered with forced rhyming schemes and an utter lack of intellectual honesty. This is not a stereotype or trope. This is the reality of what is being produced. I would further suggest that I and many other middle-aged white men living in the suburbs grew up on and love black blues and jazz with a passion; in fact, the whole raison d'être of rock and roll is due to the roots music from which it was derived, and for which a whole generation of rock musicians strived to emulate and expand. They emulated and revered the compositional and instrumental abilities of their musical forefathers -- in many cases rejuvenating the careers of long-forgotten black artists. So using the false perception that disliking a genre of music based on not understanding or caring for "the plight of the black man" is nonsense. There is music and then there is "product" that purports to be music but really is not. |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Which is irrelevant to "middle-aged white men living in the suburbs". If you were a part of that culture, then those lyrics might be regarded as a good thing.
I didn't say anything about "not understanding or not caring for 'the plight of the black man'". What I said was that the stories of black urban youth were irrelevant to middle-aged white men living in the suburbs, which is quite different to what you inferred. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43579 |
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I agree with everything you said.
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Online Points: 13232 |
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Engendering and supporting crudity, crime, misogyny and bad music is never a good thing. Perhaps it is better to encourage ending that alleged "culture" as a dead end and harmful to those who regurgitate the effluvia and capitalize off of it would be more appropriate. Which is why I support the arts in schools; unfortunately, my government does not, which is a large part of the problem.
The irrelevance is an alleged genre of music that is manifestly piss-poor. Aggrandizing a gangsta lifestyle and then claiming it is a culture (or music at all, for that matter), and then making the further absurd claim that these are "stories of black urban youth" is a disservice to the community from whence it was derived. It is a glorification of negative stereotypes in an effort to make money. It is relatively cheap to produce, manipulative, predatory, and self-defeating. I find it hilarious that Kendrick Lamar allowed a white girl up onstage to sing along to his song and then got offended when the fan repeated the word "Nigga", which were part of the lyrics. That is some special kind of stupid. The artist himself is perpetuating a negative, whole derisory term, and gets his panties in a twist when a fan who shelled out god knows how much money in concert tickets and CD sales for this imbecile repeats the lyrics he wrote. The irrelevance lies in the incomprehension or blithe ignorance of those who perpetuate this garbage. |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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I should remark at this point that I also dislike hip hop for pretty much the same reasons that you dislike it. I only mentioned the irrelevancy of hip hop to prog fans to indicate that irrelevancy might go both ways. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43579 |
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^^ Not only do I dislike Rap/Hip Hop intensely, I don't like what it stands for either, namely, crudity and vulgarity, the glorification of crime, particularly with Gangsta Rap, the drug culture, misogyny (by referring to women as b******), and hatred of the police.
![]() Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 07 2019 at 13:57 |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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You're making a moral judgement, whereas I was only making a statement based on popularity. In other words, "a good thing" in the sense of people liking it (even if it is not us who like it). |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65644 |
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Hip hop is a highly dynamic and creative form of music made by those who often have little means with which to express themselves. And quite frankly if the women of a certain group are just as big fans of a style as the men are, who cares what a bunch of amaroidal white people think. 'I prophesy disaster' is correct about the cultural mores at work. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Fortunately rock music is never crude, musically simple, misogynist or criminally inclined.
![]() If you guys think all hip-hop is negative, you are just listening to the wrong artists. That generic gangsta crap on the radio isn't what the serious hip-hop fans are into. |
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
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rogerthat ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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What?
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M27Barney ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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"BITCHES"? aaah the more poetic prog term would be "snakes with tits" me thinks...
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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The purpose of a 'tit' is to feed your young. Snakes, like most
reptiles, have very little requirement to provide parental care once their young are born, hence they have no need of mammary glands. That said, they clearly do not have a monopoly on the possible consequences of absent parenting.
Edited by ExittheLemming - December 08 2019 at 04:23 |
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M27Barney ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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^ I was thinking of the mythical lamia rather than literally...
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15163 |
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Chances are you don't know any European hip hop for example, be it done by black or white or however coloured people, and chances are your knowledge of American hip hop doesn't have much depth either. I don't claim mine has, but it's hard to assess a genre just from its commercially most easily visible surface. It's a bit like taking "We Can't Dance" as representative for what prog bands were up to in 1986.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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Should I go on? (If I need to name check underground hip hop in order to have street cred, then I'll go with Binary Star and Hieroglyph.)
Edited by SteveG - December 09 2019 at 06:42 |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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This doesn't ring "true" to me. Since when did the music industry create aggressive new music that challenged the status quo? The music industry is more about taking aggressive new music and watering it down for the masses. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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