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Why is Tull's "A Passion Play" rated so low?

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2019 at 14:41
^ i think you may have a point. I love it because it is operatic. Not everyone digs that style. I predict it will always be a fanbase wedge. It's ok. Not everyone needs to love it. I do and don't care if others share my enthusiasm or not :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2019 at 12:56
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It's ok. Not everyone needs to love it. I do and don't care if others share my enthusiasm or not :)
Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stereolab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 00:17
A brilliant album that clicked with me immediately. My #2 Tull, just a step under Brick, and almost a masterpiece. I never understood the criticism of this album being inaccessible... drop the needle pretty much anywhere on the record and the melodies should grab you immediately. What's the deal?

Edited by Stereolab - November 08 2019 at 00:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 04:08
Originally posted by Stereolab Stereolab wrote:

A brilliant album that clicked with me immediately. My #2 Tull, just a step under Brick, and almost a masterpiece. I never understood the criticism of this album being inaccessible... drop the needle pretty much anywhere on the record and the melodies should grab you immediately. What's the deal?
The deal is that these "melodies", particularly the dirge that's side one of the old vinyl, didn't grab me and I love TAAB. And the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles just added salt to the aural wound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 04:55
^^The Hare nonsense ruins this album. And for christ sake people, repeated listens does not help. I've listened for 45 years and my initial rating of 3 stars still stands. That may be generous. Will I "get it" after another 45 years of trying to convince myself it's a masterpiece?

If you like it great. Lets move on and discuss current great prog albums. Lots to choose from.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - November 08 2019 at 05:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 05:36
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^^The Hare nonsense ruins this album. And for christ sake people, repeated listens does not help. I've listened for 45 years and my initial rating of 3 stars still stands. That may be generous. Will I "get it" after another 45 years of trying to convince myself it's a masterpiece?

 
I've decided to give it another spin and have it played at my funeral. I doubt that I'll like it any better but the music will certainly fit the occasion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 06:10
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I definitely understand the vibe that APP throws off. It certainly is different from anything else in prog rock and the album, at least to me, does have it's great moments. I just don't know if Ian wanted to be experimental or just lost his muse. I suppose that's the next great APP debate.

This is hard to evaluate, for us, I think.

The reason why would be that since you are wanting to express something or other with the music, you decide that this is better than what would ... (otherwise in commercial music!!!) ... be done with lyrics. Ian understands this very well, and it shows in his work. But I kinda think that what he wanted to say, could not be done with lyrics, since the words backed by cardboard/simplified beats, would not help the work stand up for being different and valuable as a composition.

That is is rated "low", doesn't bother me ... if you are the artist, and you worry about everyone's ratings, then you are in the wrong business ... and you won't last long playing music, or saying anything ... and this is the part that many folks here don't like ... that at the time, most artists said ... I want to do this, and the audience was not an issue ... but it became an issue, when things got more commercialized ... like the radio stations owned by corporate interests and no longer playing music that is not to their "liking" or listed within a top ten context.

Sometimes, for me, I prefer the things that are "low" in ratings ... you know why? The vast majority of them are different and something that takes an extra ear to get used to and not everyone is attuned to the "third ear" as it were ... which is the biggest issue here in discussing anything, and something that no one can change me on ... I am with the art ... not the ratings or anyone else's opinions ... but then I came from a place where the arts were valuable and important in keeping people aware and strong against a politically corrupt and over controlling state. In America, this is kind of a joke, since there is not only variety (differences in each part of the country) but also any kind of control is a serious issue ... what works in NY does not work in LA and so on. And, of course, vice versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 06:15
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Stereolab Stereolab wrote:

A brilliant album that clicked with me immediately. My #2 Tull, just a step under Brick, and almost a masterpiece. I never understood the criticism of this album being inaccessible... drop the needle pretty much anywhere on the record and the melodies should grab you immediately. What's the deal?
The deal is that these "melodies", particularly the dirge that's side one of the old vinyl, didn't grab me and I love TAAB. And the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles just added salt to the aural wound.

You know that the hare story is about the fans, right? 

The hare did not exactly lose his sight on his song, but his glasses were misplaced somewhere ... it was his own affair!

But we think we are more important than the song, therefore Ian, or others, do not have a right to create something that in all actuality is not just a pun on words, but a very pointed story ... and while Passion Plays were not exactly very pointed, many of them had a fun bit in the middle to ensure the audience got a laugh, and in this presentation the hare would end up with the glasses side ways on its face to make it look silly for the audience to get a laugh ... but within an album, and lyrics, that is hard ... but my take on it, is that most people don't know what the story is all about or how it fits there ... which to me is no big deal ... even the Maharishi used to crack fun jokes in the middle of meditations ... just to make sure you were here!


Edited by moshkito - November 08 2019 at 06:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 06:42
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I've decided to give it another spin and have it played at my funeral. I doubt that I'll like it any better but the music will certainly fit the occasion.

Ha ha! Made my day. Thanks Steve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 07:20
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I definitely understand the vibe that APP throws off. It certainly is different from anything else in prog rock and the album, at least to me, does have it's great moments. I just don't know if Ian wanted to be experimental or just lost his muse. I suppose that's the next great APP debate.

This is hard to evaluate, for us, I think.

The reason why would be that since you are wanting to express something or other with the music, you decide that this is better than what would ... (otherwise in commercial music!!!) ... be done with lyrics. Ian understands this very well, and it shows in his work. But I kinda think that what he wanted to say, could not be done with lyrics, since the words backed by cardboard/simplified beats, would not help the work stand up for being different and valuable as a composition.

That is is rated "low", doesn't bother me ... if you are the artist, and you worry about everyone's ratings, then you are in the wrong business ... and you won't last long playing music, or saying anything ... and this is the part that many folks here don't like ... that at the time, most artists said ... I want to do this, and the audience was not an issue ... but it became an issue, when things got more commercialized ... like the radio stations owned by corporate interests and no longer playing music that is not to their "liking" or listed within a top ten context.

Sometimes, for me, I prefer the things that are "low" in ratings ... you know why? The vast majority of them are different and something that takes an extra ear to get used to and not everyone is attuned to the "third ear" as it were ... which is the biggest issue here in discussing anything, and something that no one can change me on ... I am with the art ... not the ratings or anyone else's opinions ... but then I came from a place where the arts were valuable and important in keeping people aware and strong against a politically corrupt and over controlling state. In America, this is kind of a joke, since there is not only variety (differences in each part of the country) but also any kind of control is a serious issue ... what works in NY does not work in LA and so on. And, of course, vice versa.
When I spoke of APP I was speaking of the album as a whole, the music along with the lyrics. We all like to think that we're above the popular conventions when it comes to appreciating art. In my case I prefer for the many low rated albums that I enjoy to actually be good. Or to at least be enjoyable to me. Be it high ratings or low.

Edited by SteveG - November 08 2019 at 07:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 07:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It's ok. Not everyone needs to love it. I do and don't care if others share my enthusiasm or not :)
Are you trying to convince me or yourself? Clown


No, i'm just saying that arguing about who likes an album is a waste of time. You don't care that i love this album and i don't care that you don't. Music is personal. If it doesn't float your boat i'm not gonna take you on a cruise at gunpoint LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 07:31
^ 10-4 good buddy. I read you loud and clear! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stereolab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 18:30
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Stereolab Stereolab wrote:

A brilliant album that clicked with me immediately. My #2 Tull, just a step under Brick, and almost a masterpiece. I never understood the criticism of this album being inaccessible... drop the needle pretty much anywhere on the record and the melodies should grab you immediately. What's the deal?
The deal is that these "melodies", particularly the dirge that's side one of the old vinyl, didn't grab me and I love TAAB. And the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles just added salt to the aural wound.

"Hare" does suck, a problem I easily solved by deleting the track. (I meant "drop the needle" figuratively, I listen to all my music digitally.) That's the only reason I don't call it the album as a whole a masterpiece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 02:58
I don't know because in my opinion it kicks In the Court of the Crimson King in the arse (and people here slobber over that one). People probably dismissed it because it followed a similar format to Thick as a Brick? Too much to get into? I don't know. Anyway I just finished listening to it, it's a freaking masterpiece. 

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 13 2019 at 02:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 03:16
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

I don't know because in my opinion it kicks In the Court of the Crimson King in the arse (and people here slobber over that one). People probably dismissed it because it followed a similar format to Thick as a Brick? Too much to get into? I don't know. Anyway I just finished listening to it, it's a freaking masterpiece. 

Bravo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 13:11
I have all 12 remix books and they're all awesome. Tull crap on Yes, Crimson and Floyd. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 13:37
^ some great stuff on the associated disc indeed and the live Sweet Dream at the end really kick ass. Love the raw sound (quite good in fact but rawer than say..Bursting Out or MSG) of the Den Haag concert, pretty hot perfo too.

Edited by Barbu - November 13 2019 at 14:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 01:40
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

^ some great stuff on the associated disc indeed and the live Sweet Dream at the end really kick ass. Love the raw sound (quite good in fact but rawer than say..Bursting Out or MSG) of the Den Haag concert, pretty hot perfo too.


Been playing it loud in the car. I don’t think there has been a better year in the studio by a single band. This so called prog site has 2 members who even own the remix lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 01:59
The hare nonsense only ruins it for people with no python sense of humour.  I think whodunnit was one a great silly track on Abacrabs.  Sigh.  In the end some people just don't get it sometimes and I pity them kinda sorta LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 03:59
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

The hare nonsense only ruins it for people with no python sense of humour.  I think whodunnit was one a great silly track on Abacrabs.  Sigh.  In the end some people just don't get it sometimes and I pity them kinda sorta LOL
I beg to differ. Monty Python And The Holy Grail is one of my all time favorite movies that I still enjoy watching (or listening to) today.  "What Is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?" Classic. The Hare: just dumb.

Edited by SteveG - November 14 2019 at 04:15
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