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chopper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2019 at 08:27
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Perhaps it is me. I think that Dancing, Firth, Cinema and Epping are all in the Finest symph prog tracks of all time. However, later prog bands esp Transatlantic and the Flokis have examples of the extended epic. Stardust we are, Monsters and Men (best guitar solo on pure length alone) and Garden of Dreams are all of the required length for an epic. All of the above (monster solo by stolt) show how it can be done. I would buy an extended version of SEBTP..even at £100 notes...
 
Who are "The Flokis"? I can't see any mention of them anywhere. Question
 
I'm guessing that's The Flower Kings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2019 at 09:13
Thanks Chopper. Thumbs Up It's no wonder I couldn't find "The Flokis". I might get used to all of these abbreviations when I've been here awhile. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2019 at 09:18
Aye. Shorthand. Anybody who appreciates symphonic prog and hasn't heard any Flower Kings has a wealth of back catalogue and probably more epics than any other band...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2019 at 09:57
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

...Who are "GDGG"?


Glam der Graaf Generator starring the lovely and talented Peter Glammill.






Edited by Logan - October 23 2019 at 10:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote admireArt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2019 at 23:32
Sequentia Legenda, try to think PE had a newcomer, but it turrned out to be an imitator.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2019 at 00:02
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

...Who are "GDGG"?


Glam der Graaf Generator starring the lovely and talented Peter Glammill.




 
Thanks Logan. I'm guessing they must be a Van der Graaf Generator tribute band. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2019 at 01:04
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

...Who are "GDGG"?


Glam der Graaf Generator starring the lovely and talented Peter Glammill.





 
Thanks Logan. I'm guessing they must be a Van der Graaf Generator tribute band. Tongue


In 1939 it was the opening act for Ham der Graaf Generator (of H to He Who Ham the Only One and Pork Hearts fame) with Porky Hammill and Hugh Bacon.

Ham der Graaf Generator is notorious for an incident when one of their props, a huge inflatable pig floating near Battersea Power Station, became unmoored and collided with a Graf Zeppelin carrying important German dignitaries, including Reichsführer Heinrich Hammler, in early September of 1939, which in turn collided with a Lead Zeppelin carrying a Bavarian folk music band (that band had had hits with "Whole Lotta Liebe" and "Over The Hills und Heil Hitler"). Despite the Lead Zeppelin sinking like, well like a lead balloon, the occupants survived, but were left feeling very dazed and confused. This porcine mishap led to a long and protracted war as well an epic battle of the bands.

Van der Graaf Generator may have been inspired by this historical incident, as well as some other bands perhaps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2019 at 02:45
^^ Great story! I love it and I can almost believe it's true. LOL ^^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Spacegod87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2019 at 02:52
I'm afraid to say, considering how many people fawn over him, but Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree. 

I have really, really tried as well, and some songs I don't mind (Routine, Trains) but overall his songs put me to sleep. Unhappy

Also, I tried getting into Marillion but just can't. I'm still expecting to suddenly "get it" one day and fall in love with them. Hasn't happened yet..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 03:13
I said Crimson in an earlier but just remembered how Dream Theater doesn't do much for me. They're so much of an afterthought that I didn't think of them 😂🤣

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 13 2019 at 03:14
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 03:28
Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 06:16
Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?

Edited by M27Barney - November 13 2019 at 06:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 10:09
I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused




Edited by Jeffro - November 13 2019 at 10:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 10:12
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Enchant. They do nothing for me. I checked them out after Ted Leonard joined Spock's Beard.

I think I've been able to find three Enchant songs that I like but that's it. Like you, I didn't check them out until after Ted joined SB. I just don't think he's the right fit for SB. Bring back Nick D and jettison Ted.

Never been able to get into.. 
Van Der Graff 
Henry Cow (WTF???) 
Beefheart (double WTF????) 
Uriah Heap (just doesn't click for whatever reason)
Gentle Giant (other than Power And The Glory)
Marillion
Flower Kings
Neal Morse (solo and projects. Love Spock's Beard with him though)
most Zappa (There, I said it)
and most prog metal bands. 


Edited by Jeffro - November 13 2019 at 10:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForestFriend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2019 at 12:02
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused


I suppose if someone says a band "lacks soul", it could be their way of saying they can't connect emotionally with the music. Granted, I've noticed a trend (especially amongst musicians, most likely jealous ones) for people to dismiss anything on the basis of it being too fast or complex, which I think is stupid. There's more to emotion than a slow blues.

I do agree about the derivative comment... It seems on here, as soon as a band uses a Mellotron and a Hammond organ they're retro prog. But it's fine if they're using heavy distorted guitars because no prog band has ever done that before...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 03:36
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused

I do give a flying f***. If a band is derivative, then I will not enjoy the music. Pretty simple really.
As for "soul", well, that's one's own personal interpretation...maybe I should have used a different term other than "soul" maybe "feeling" .........if you don't feel or connect with an artist, well you just don't connect.
Some people love Donald Trump; others don't.
Some people love Greta Thunberg; others don't.
Some people love ABBA; others don't
Some people love Dream Theatre; others don't.
That's what makes the world an interesting place (I think).


Edited by BarryGlibb - November 14 2019 at 03:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 03:41
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?


I'm BarryGlibb not Gibb. Glib as in "speaking in a very smooth, easy way, which may appear to be insincere." Yes, I am being ironic with my avatar!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 05:03
Every album by King Crimson after their first album. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 05:05
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?
 
I think Barry is being glib. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 09:08
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
extending everything doesn't make it better
...

Agreed that it is not the difference between it being better or not.

My take is that the conceptual nature of the work is haphazard and not as well done as it needed to be and kinda was in TLLDOB ... but it was quickly dumped when PG left the band ... according to that center piece on PG leaving the band, that he was disappointed with the support and the idea for what was a really nice and valuable concept, with a lot of literary ideas and concerns, that rock music and its fanboys love to say are crap!

When compared to ANGE, Genesis is not one half the talent for concept and ideas ... and music that is far more with it, than just a pop song, or some cutesy this and that to look cool for an audience.

But, rock fans don't understand "extending" anything, and if they had their way, Beethoven's 5th would be 9 minutes only, Tchaikovsky's Pastoral would be 6 minutes long, and Bolero would be 2 minutes long. And Wagner? Ohhhhh my gawd ... cut the operas in half and it's still too long! Music? What music?

Extending something is sometimes an idea that is in the piece of music for CONTINUITY and allow its story to develop in your mind ... let's try the opening of Act 2 in TOSCA ... take that out and the story is cut up ... you don't get the meaning and ideas of that opening ... the guy being taken to jail, and then you get to hear the aria ... it sets up the whole thing beautifully ... but rock fans are not folks that use THEIR IMAGINATION, see? They have to have lyrics to tell them what is happening in the music ... so "extending" anything, as you suggest, ends up in the trash ... what is commonly called "pearls before swine".
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