Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General Polls
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Brexit: A change of heart??
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Brexit: A change of heart??
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 14>
Poll Question: Have you changed your mind either way?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
17 [45.95%]
18 [48.65%]
1 [2.70%]
1 [2.70%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Brexit: A change of heart??
    Posted: November 12 2018 at 04:20
You don't necessarily need to jusify your answer, unless you feel a burning desire to do so, this is just to get a feel for how perspectives may have changed since the referendum.

The perspectives of fellow Europeans and anyone else is perfectly welcome here. The poll isn't solely intended for those who voted here in the UK. The perspective of our neighbours (and beyond) is important, at least it is to me.

Play nicely folks..
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
AZF View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AZF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 05:15
It's been fascinating!
For a start we learned how the UK government is completely inept. Granted the Tories were always useless but it's been so good to see Labour disintegrate as well!
And nobody wants to go there, but the EU has behaved like a wife beater telling his victim she can't leave!
Both c**ts on both sides. Who would have thunk it etc?

I worked as a poll Clerk which was interesting. Didn't actually vote because if we were to leave the EU it should have been a cross party movement.
I think we won't leave after all. But we should be kicked out!

Plus, now the whole world has saw glimpses of true nature of UK and EU, I think we CAN'T go back. Again to the abusive relationship analogy,"Oh there's no need to be concerned! Mrs. Victim has gone back to Mr. Instigator! Now let's obsess about something else instead."
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 06:20
Well I ended up voting Remain (but only just) but I was very much on the fence on the whole issue.
 
We can argue about the economics until we're blue in the face but, ultimately, for me, it comes down to how happy we are as a nation.
 
My feeling has always been that, as a nation, we're just not happy being part of this thing, so we just leave and be independent and happy.
 
If we stay in then the whole interminable debate will rumble on and on forever, and I think we need to deal with it once and for all and then move on as a nation.
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 08:08
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

You don't necessarily need to jusify your answer, unless you feel a burning desire to do so, this is just to get a feel for how perspectives may have changed since the referendum.

The perspectives of fellow Europeans and anyone else is perfectly welcome here. The poll isn't solely intended for those who voted here in the UK. The perspective of our neighbours (and beyond) is important, at least it is to me.

Play nicely folks..


Well, then, as somebody working for a company that owns a renowned British brand now facing severe headwinds from the combined effect of Brexit, slowing China growth and the trade war, I think it is an economic disaster in the short run.  As for the long run, I recall the Keynes quote about all of us being dead in the long run anyway.  With that said, I have never visited UK and have no idea what could have driven the Brexit.  I can say, on the other hand, that I visited the town of Niagara in 2014, found the people to be very unhappy and wasn't surprised to see Niagara county flip massively for Trump, nor particularly surprised with the Trump verdict.  That is, perhaps the working class' misery is so deep that they are prepared to gamble if only to actually make the politicians work for a change.  Unfortunately, that's not how the script seems to have played out from a distance (then again, I could be completely wrong) and I am stunned to see that we are hurtling towards a no deal Brexit.  I am not sure the EU can handle the double whammy of a no deal Brexit plus an Italian default and on their part, they ought to shake off their hubris and try to reach an amicable settlement with the UK.
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 11:06
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

You don't necessarily need to jusify your answer, unless you feel a burning desire to do so, this is just to get a feel for how perspectives may have changed since the referendum.

The perspectives of fellow Europeans and anyone else is perfectly welcome here. The poll isn't solely intended for those who voted here in the UK. The perspective of our neighbours (and beyond) is important, at least it is to me.

Play nicely folks..



Well, then, as somebody working for a company that owns a renowned British brand now facing severe headwinds from the combined effect of Brexit, slowing China growth and the trade war, I think it is an economic disaster in the short run.  As for the long run, I recall the Keynes quote about all of us being dead in the long run anyway.  With that said, I have never visited UK and have no idea what could have driven the Brexit.  I can say, on the other hand, that I visited the town of Niagara in 2014, found the people to be very unhappy and wasn't surprised to see Niagara county flip massively for Trump, nor particularly surprised with the Trump verdict.  That is, perhaps the working class' misery is so deep that they are prepared to gamble if only to actually make the politicians work for a change.  Unfortunately, that's not how the script seems to have played out from a distance (then again, I could be completely wrong) and I am stunned to see that we are hurtling towards a no deal Brexit.  I am not sure the EU can handle the double whammy of a no deal Brexit plus an Italian default and on their part, they ought to shake off their hubris and try to reach an amicable settlement with the UK.


I voted to remain after some consderation, and would vote the same again. I love Europe, but I'm niether here nor there on the principle of being part of it politcally, but the single market is important, as are our strategic military alliances. I have also always considered myself British & European.

Brussels needs to be careful about being too agreeable in any agreement we may reach, as it could stimulate EU skeptic movements in other member states who may also be soul searching on the question of their membership. If the UK can do it, we can do it...etc
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 11:51
But being in the EU is either a good thing in itself or it isn't.

If being in the EU is self evidently a good thing then the EU doesn't need to take measures to prevent populations from voting to leave! They won't want to leave anyway.

The fact we're saying that the EU has to make Brexit look like a bad idea suggests that EU membership is not self evidently good for its citizens
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 12:00
Hi,

The weirdest part is that in a "world economy" where people must share everything in order to be able to sell it, and get more out of it, a country getting out of it, is going to find itself ... SOL. Their prices will rise and no one will buy it, not to mention that England/Britain do not exactly light up the trade world with their resources! English Coffee? Ohhh wait ... English Tea ... that will make the Plutonians really happy!

Oh wait ... forgot ... they will create more versions of "progressive" anything and then try selling it!

You do know that the BBC is the worst at selling stuff all over the world, right? Even their version of Amazon does not take American Credit Cards ... the verification's fail.

And you're counting on an economy that finds ways not to sell, succeed?

Weird!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 12:19
Well I certainly agree that we've not been good enough at exporting in our recent history (although we were pretty good at it in our more distant past)

I don't think being rich in raw materials necessarily makes you a wealthy nation. The kids working in the diamond mines of DR Congo don't seem too well off to me.

The reality is that the future lies with the growing economies of China and India, and not with the old economies of the west.

Yes we're doomed, but so is the EU, which means it matters little whether we stay in or get out. The future's bleak whichever way we jump
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
someone_else View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24296 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2018 at 14:42
As a fellow European and an anti-Evil Union extremist I support both Brexit and Nexit. In fact, the scenario optimum is that the EU should abolish itself on behalf of all its member states and the rest of the world - my one and only plea in favour of EUthanasia.

Edited by someone_else - November 12 2018 at 14:43
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 00:58
Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:

But being in the EU is either a good thing in itself or it isn't.

If being in the EU is self evidently a good thing then the EU doesn't need to take measures to prevent populations from voting to leave! They won't want to leave anyway.

The fact we're saying that the EU has to make Brexit look like a bad idea suggests that EU membership is not self evidently good for its citizens


That's the problem. Membership is both good and bad. No political system results in everyone being a winner, so it's a question of balancing the good with the bad and coming to an informed conclusion. As a nation I believe we didn't do that, thanks to the toxic nature of both campaigns in the referendum.

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 03:43
I certainly agree with you that the debate was toxic and both campaigns were dreadful.

The falsehoods of the Leave campaign are well documented, but the strategy of the Remain campaign, in trying to frighten voters into staying in the EU rather than explaining the benefits of membership, was a fatal error.

The result is the price of that failure.
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 07:26
Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:

I certainly agree with you that the debate was toxic and both campaigns were dreadful.

The falsehoods of the Leave campaign are well documented, but the strategy of the Remain campaign, in trying to frighten voters into staying in the EU rather than explaining the benefits of membership, was a fatal error.

The result is the price of that failure.

I kinda think that their campaigns resembled the stuff that a certain president is pulling off on the media and the people, in general. You confuse them so badly, that when the public needs to vote left to show change, they vote ... nowhere ... to show no change, or not enough change to make a point.

I'm not sure, in general, that the "public" can make a determination on something they are not sure about, and are not told information as to what it really is. And the confusing way of getting "information" out on the subject is the part that scares me the most ... like saying the royals are saints, and they are the most evil in history, with a lot of acts to pervert the truth and get something done. But now, they can live in squalor, waste public moneys ... and no one says anything ... because we love the show and the pictures! They are so colorful and pretty!

Worst movie Kubrick never made!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Davesax1965 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 07:36
It's amazing how people don't live in the UK have an opinion on Brexit. 

I voted remain, turns out it was leave time. Do I want a second referendum ? Nope, we're committed, the die is cast, if we have a second referendum it's essentially a perversion of democracy and a dangerous precedent to set. 

I don't want a no deal Brexit but that's the way it's going and you don't always get what you want. Do I think Brexit will be a good thing in the long run ? Nope, afraid not, disaster, more like. 

Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 07:42
I agree! You either have democracy or you don't.

If you have democracy then, by definition, you accept the people's choice, even IF the people have made a bad choice.

I think the jury is out regarding the success or failure of Brexit, and it will be for a long time.

Only in 10 to 20 years will we be able to form a clear judgement regarding whether it was a success or a failure.
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
Blacksword View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 08:42
Referendums are not legally binding, like elections, and can be re-run. I would agree that that would 'appear' undemocratic to many folk. If there were to be a reasonable deal, I think tha would be worth a re-run. People may change their minds, but I fear a no dea may be the way we're going, ad that's going to be messy...at best, and a disaser at worse.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 09:09
Referendums are not legally binding, however, David Cameron made it clear that this was a "once in a generation vote" which would settle the issue for decades to come.

To now try to re-run the vote because the ruling classes didn't get the result they wanted would completely destroy the public's already fragile faith in democracy in our country.

The result must stand, for good or for bad, and only time will tell which it is
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
Man With Hat View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team

Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 13:43
If I lived in the UK I would have voted remain. 
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Back to Top
Chaser View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2018
Location: Nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 1202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chaser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 14:04
It doesn't matter what you vote for in the UK.  You get what the ruling classes want. 
 
We are going to get what I always thought we would get:  BRINO (Brexit In Name Only)
 
So, we are effectively going to Remain anyway, whatever the people voted for.
Songs cast a light on you
Back to Top
NutterAlert View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2808 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NutterAlert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 14:42
I voted to remain, but who knows what is going to happen now.  

So depressing that the media is in full on meltdown over Brexit, whipping the masses up as ever, apparently our food supply chains are going to collapse now so we better get on with panic buying food (Year 2K all over again)
Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
Back to Top
AZF View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AZF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2018 at 16:13
According to tomorrow's front newspapers a deal is done and May presenting it to cabinet.
Corbyn also had meeting with MI6 about the tricks.
Still unreported the sanctioned woman who set fire to herself in Tory constituency meeting.
The United Nations investigating extreme poverty got slightly more press.
The UK government could blame the EU for not helping as much with those problems and the EU could blame the UK government for not doing enough with those problems.
Be mad if it doesn't happen and Corbyn goes!
And if another direction gets declared before another vote etc, then get on to your Town Hall by phone, ask to be put to the presiding office and if they go "What the hell is that you f**kwit?" say you want to volunteer to work as a Poll Clerk.
If you really, really love staying up all night seeing the results come in then give it a miss as you need the sleep after being up since 5 am until however long it takes to get home.

Hopefully some money in the bank if an election comes up. But Brexit deal "Done" next chess move...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 14>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.121 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.