progressive rock in crisis

Yep, absolutely. 

To make money from touring or gigs, well. Firstly, you have to have made the money and the name to be able to afford to do so. If the money doesn't come in from album sales, and a gig venue, PA and lighting hire comes in at thousands.......  it's not going to happen. 

I remember my brother one lugging a drum kit up five flights of steps for a gig - this was a fire escape covered in ice during a howling gale. Five people turned up for the gig. And that was in the good old days. ;-)

Prog rock et al do not attract huge numbers of people to gigs, either. Unless it's a name. People don't get a name without years and years of work.

And bands just don't last long enough now to get there. 

As Silly Puppy says, there are loads and loads of bands out there. Most are, er. Um. Baaaad. There are a few decent ones. I think when people find a decent band, they just copy the link into a ripper and that's the end of that.

Quite literally. 

I did a poll ("Bandcamp name your price") asking how much people would pay if you could pay anything they felt was fair.  Six out of 20 respondents said they would pay NOTHING, not even a buck or two.  That's just sad...

Davesax1965 wrote: The result is that, yes, the music industry is in crisis and hence specialised music is in crisis. It's a sad state of affairs, and most likely inescapable, as a result of technological and societal change.

Certainly looks that way, doesn't it?

Not a lot those of us who actually care can do except to buy the CDs / vinyl / downloads (preferably from the artist, the label or Bandcamp), go to the gigs, and make it known that streaming doesn't meaningfully support artists. But it probably isn't enough to make much difference.

Thanks, Rogerthat. 

Yes, I'm honestly not talking about my own music but making a generic point. Every single musician I know, as I think I mentioned, is struggling and disillusioned. Rogerthat's friend is sadly, a typical example. 

I think Mosh mentioned that 100% dedication was the key to being a musician was the key, and that's absolutely correct - God knows how he's sure, he isn't one - but the point to make is that many absolutely dedicated artists have almost reached the end of the road in sheer frustration. 

I've hardly released anything in two years. I have almost no interest in money (got a good day job) or "fame" - that's for the kids. Let's take my example, as an older (52) musician as being typical. I've had about 10 - 11,000 plays on Bandcamp. Complete plays are almost the norm for me, so I produce something enjoyable enough for the listener to sit through (or they're too idle to click the mouse !!! ) - I've had a few hundred downloads - guess what ? All the free stuff gets hoovered up. 

So, having tried everything, I release the entire digital discography - several albums, EPs, individual tracks - for less than about $3. I mail shot anyone who's downloaded anything from the site in 5 years. I get TWO buyers. 

Let's put aside the money for a moment and ask ourselves whether this is a fair two way arrangement with fans supporting bands.... ah. It patently isn't. Not just because of my example, but because I can tell that this is happening all across the board. I've got to say that most musicians I talk to feel like they're not attracting fans, but vultures who descend on the free stuff, and give nothing back. 

Most protest that they buy music. I have six years of analytics which says that they don't. 

The point here is not about money or fame but simply respect. I release lots of free music, or rather, used to. Over a gradual period, I though "what the hell is the point ?". If you look at the "free prog tracks" thread, that's ground to a halt. Yes, some bands will release the odd free track, to get noticed and grow an audience: they soon realise that neither releasing free tracks nor getting free radio play (and I've had lots) is actually going to convince people to actually pay for music. 

So there are seemingly no fans any more, only listeners. When I think about it, one of the great pleasures of music was actually bringing some kind of pleasure to likeminded people. But, with the general public devaluing music in such a way, I tend to think "all I'm going to do is watch the vultures descend again ", so the pleasure I get from music now is by playing with other musicians in jam sessions - for our own pleasure. No money, no respect, everyone grinding money out of artists in PA, venue and lighting hire - no sales to cover that or recording.... why bother ?

The worrying thing for you non musicians out there is that if I start thinking like that, so do a lot of other musicians. And I can see a sea change coming, to be honest. As mentioned, those of us (me included) who prefer older prog rock have a massive back catalogue to choose from, but new music will die. If real music is facing extinction, the weaker members will die first - specialised music with smaller audiences. With the massive commercialisation of music, all that will remain is commercial product which a few people can make money out of, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it won't be the artists. 

Mosh, in conclusion, as Rogerthat says, you are sitting in an armchair and making statements about subjects you don't really understand (which seems to have been the pattern for years, anyway, I'm sorry to say.) If you're not going to buy my music for whatever reason, great, don't, I'm really not bothered. 

If, however, you think you can demand that musicians carry on no matter what, even the ones you don't actively support, can I suggest you look up "King Canute" on Wikipedia ? 

I stop mostly at seventies, Marillion is ok, but never thought it had anything really great. I don´t like for example Spock`s Beard, Porcupine Tree or Big Big Train. But I really like some old bands latest releases, like Hawkwind, Procol Harum, Strawbs & Roger Waters.

Thanks, silly_puppy, I think I was trying to say that but splurted out too many words as I was just driven to distraction by another gem of Mosh's wisdom. 

I think your post sums it up better than I did. ;-)

People will still produce "progressive" music, as - IMO - musicians don't set out to produce "progressive rock". Some people are classically trained or think in different ways or just want to produce complicated, unusual or different music. That just happens to be "progressive". 

The problem with this is that the music industry is now set up so you can't deviate too far from the norm and make enough to ends meet. After a while, most musicians will give up. This is nothing other than practicality. The idea that some musicians HAVE to produce music, even for free "or they're not musicians" is just wrong. That's like saying you're not a carpenter unless you build me a chair for free. Meanwhile, back in the real world......

So I don't think "prog rock" is in crisis. The entire (real) music world is. 

moshkito wrote: FXM wrote: ...  I looked up 4 artists; Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schutze, Cosmic Ground and Spock's Beard. Only the Spock's Beard listing was up to date, there was nothing for Tangerine Dream since 2014, the last two releases by Cosmic Ground were not listed and the last release listed for Schutze was Shadowlands (2013).  ... I honestly think that this is a problem with the folks that call themselves "admin" here,

FXM wrote: ...  I looked up 4 artists; Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schutze, Cosmic Ground and Spock's Beard. Only the Spock's Beard listing was up to date, there was nothing for Tangerine Dream since 2014, the last two releases by Cosmic Ground were not listed and the last release listed for Schutze was Shadowlands (2013).  ...