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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:11 |
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24297
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:16 |
Blacksword wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. It also not coincidental how many anti-Putin politicians, activists, exiled spies, etc. have ended up murdered. And that specific sort of poison, the danger in handling it, and the expertise required in planting it? It's like Putin put up a billboard festooned with neon lights in Piccadilly. |
Makes you wonder why another method of attack wasn't used. As you say, handling the substane is precarious and dangerous, and a successful kill was also not guaranteed. Surely if the Kremlin wanted this man dead, he'd be dead.
Of course, it may be that Putin actually wanted to be the main suspect, and wanted the world to take notice that he was serious about dealing with 'traitors' and didn't care about the consequences. |
I don't see why Putin should order a review exercise on a retired spy and his daughter. We know since the days of Litvinenko, who was still active, that he is very capable of eliminating his opponents. It may be more than just an itchy feeling under my tin foil hat that the order for this assassination was signed with green ink and executed by some 00-number, according to the Blaqua-scenario, given today's political constellation and the pacemaking against Russia by state controlled media in the US and the EU.
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:18 |
[/QUOTE]Maybe it was used to make the Russians look suspicious as a distraction?[/QUOTE] A distraction from what? Does the UK, or any government, have to set up the Russians to make Putin and his police state look worse than it is?[/QUOTE]
Russia
is a big nuclear-weapon state (most stockpiles) and some Western countries don’t like that. They want the
monopoly of nuclear weapons. Hence the Russophobia, the ongoing war in Syria to weaken Russia and her allies etc.
Edited by Blaqua - April 05 2018 at 06:19
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 07:31 |
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 07:45 |
Easy Money wrote:
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator. |
Sadly, Em, you are a voice of reason crying out in a wilderness of ignorance. It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do. They were smart enough to know that we, the West, would sabotage our ability to reason with little effort from Puttin and his criminal state. Sadly, we are that dumb.
Edited by SteveG - April 05 2018 at 07:47
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 13:03 |
" It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do." Are you out of your mind? This is how the diplomatic puppets of the US (almost all from Western countries) stupidly and so readily, despite lack of evidence, reacted to the UK's antics. Read this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/27/here-are-all-the-countries-that-just-expelled-russian-diplomats/?utm_term=.87573fea890a Quoting Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale and scope. This very recent incident and the subsequent expulsions demonstrate clearly the West's (at least that of its corrupted diplomats) modern mindset towards Russia. "They were smart enough" They are smart enough to not give in to Theresa May's and Nikki Haley's petty finger-pointing
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 13:41 |
^ Get out of the senate and into the street. What I commented on was public opinion, hence mindset, not state doctrines. But let's go a bit further:
" Quoting Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale and scope. This very recent incident and the subsequent expulsions demonstrate clearly the West's (at least that of its corrupted diplomats) modern mindset towards Russia." Yes, once again someone, in this case you, is crying over poor little Russia who is now getting abused by the West. You read these words and speak these words, but don't comprehend what you are saying.
Edited by SteveG - April 05 2018 at 13:49
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10261
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 15:54 |
Proof that it really was the Russians who were behind the attack does actually not exist, and it is by no means the only plausible explanation (as is claimed by the British prime minister). We just watched a TV-documentation about it.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10618
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 20:35 |
^ At this point only a few people who were there know for sure who was responsible, but given their on going track record, ruling out the Russian government and KGB Putin is just naive, or some kind of devoted Russian government fan-boyism. Just ask anyone from Russia or Eastern Europe about what kind of extremes Putin is willing to go for to extend Russian government ambitions.
Edited by Easy Money - April 05 2018 at 21:56
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
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Points: 67407
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 02:58 |
I for one couldn't be more glad that we have such an upstanding man as Mr. Putin to defend Europe against NATO and American imperialism.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 03:08 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ At this point only a few people who were there know for sure who was responsible, but given their on going track record, ruling out the Russian government and KGB Putin is just naive, or some kind of devoted Russian government fan-boyism. Just ask anyone from Russia or Eastern Europe about what kind of extremes Putin is willing to go for to extend Russian government ambitions. |
The question is, as always: Cui bono? Certainly not the Russians, as you can see by this reaction. And I have my doubts that they are so stupid they did not foresee this reaction if they were behind it. Anyway, I did not rule out anything; I merely said there is no proof at all. The one who is ruling out anything but one scenario is Theresa May. And the ones who are naive are those that blindly believe an accusation for which there is no proof at all.
Edited by BaldFriede - April 06 2018 at 03:11
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 04:12 |
To make myself clear, I don't believe that there is cut and dried proof of Russia's actions, only that general opinion seems to be that it would beyond Russia's need and ability to carry out an act that they have successfully done many times before with a more lethal outcome, as if Russia is some benign player in the world of political intrigue. There may be not a smoking gun this time around, but the Russians, like so many other world players including the Western countries, reek of exploded gunpowder.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 04:36 |
Even if Putin and the Russian government were falsely accused they would still get no sympathy from me, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy, murderous thug that he is. Likewise, I have no sympathy for the US's current fascist wannabe president either, comrade Trump. Two peas in a pod, both of them.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 04:48 |
I like neither Donald Trump nor Vladimir Putin nor Theresa May.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 05:25 |
SteveG wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator. | Sadly, Em, you are a voice of reason crying out in a wilderness of ignorance. It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do. They were smart enough to know that we, the West, would sabotage our ability to reason with little effort from Puttin and his criminal state. Sadly, we are that dumb.
| "It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor" No it isn't. Do you not watch the news?? The current mindset in the west is that Russia is a dangerous existential threat. There are some on the left, and curiously on the far right, who don't share this view, but they are in a minority, just as they were during the first 'cold war' That minority view is not a new development. In Russia the west is also portrayed as a dangerous threat, intent on surrounding them with NATO forces. This is what happens between adversaries; media mind games. There is a difference between questioning the validity of this news story, and regarding Russia as peace loving victims. They are demonstrably not.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 05:41 |
Once again, talk to the people who know him, the people in Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, they know who Putin is and they know the ongoing history of the Russian government. Likewise, condemning the Russian government is by no means giving a free pass to the transgressions of the US government, or anyone else.
Edited by Easy Money - April 06 2018 at 05:43
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 07:31 |
Blacksword wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator. | Sadly, Em, you are a voice of reason crying out in a wilderness of ignorance. It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do. They were smart enough to know that we, the West, would sabotage our ability to reason with little effort from Puttin and his criminal state. Sadly, we are that dumb.
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"It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor"
No it isn't. Do you not watch the news?? The current mindset in the west is that Russia is a dangerous existential threat.
There are some on the left, and curiously on the far right, who don't share this view, but they are in a minority, just as they were during the first 'cold war' That minority view is not a new development. In Russia the west is also portrayed as a dangerous threat, intent on surrounding them with NATO forces. This is what happens between adversaries; media mind games.
There is a difference between questioning the validity of this news story, and regarding Russia as peace loving victims. They are demonstrably not. |
How many times do I have to say that I'm referring to public opinion. Do you not read the replies that I and others post?
A majority of the replies to this thread cry over poor little Russia for being so ill treated by PM May. I'm sick of this sympathy for the devil. Putin can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, along with anyone who feels that he's been damaged by the accusations against him and his government.
Edited by SteveG - April 06 2018 at 10:11
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 08:58 |
The fact remains that there's still no proof, regardless of how many times the allegation is repeated. It seems that at this time not more is known than there was a month ago.
At this time I find that incredibly difficult to buy, in spite of what
Boris Johnson tells me. Of course, I have the highest regard for Boris
Johnson (and Theresa May), but I think they're so full of crap, they
squeak when they walk.
If it was instigated by Russia, it was (for their finely honed bumping-off capabilities) an incredibly bungled effort. Both victims still alive and recovering? From a nerve gas attack in the heart of Europe by an adversarial power in peace time?
On the other hand, I've heard that Russia might have some adversaries here and there that could find it beneficial if Russia's and the western world's relations might run into even greater difficulties than they have done already.
But then again, I suppose that's just me being stupid and naive.
Edited by npjnpj - April 06 2018 at 09:01
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 12:11 |
SteveG wrote:
I'm sick of this sympathy for the devil. Putin can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, along with anyone who feels that he's been damaged by the accusations against him and his government. |
hear HEAR!!!! *clappy emoticon and a Hearty emoticon*
Who cares if there is proof or not... past deeds speak loud enough. this is all you need to know about sweet ol' innocent wrongly persecuted in the court of public opinion and western governments Putin.
Yes they are dead because of Putin and his expansionist policies.. No Putin trying to reclaim lost Soviet territory. Those beautiful children are still alive
So as far as I'm concerned... if he gets framed.. or wrongly accused. Who cares.. f**k him. He scares me even more than Trump... at least he is gone in two years...just as dangerous.. but FAR more intelligent and devious.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 12:16 |
Vompatti wrote:
I for one couldn't be more glad that we have such an upstanding man as Mr. Putin to defend Europe against NATO and American imperialism.
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hahha.. nice one.. but you only went half way..
Start up the Xi Jinping fanclub man.... he who might be the one to save the world from both Putin AND Trump haha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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