Rush vs Led Zeppelin

Mortte wrote: ^Big difference with Zeppelin and those others is that when they´re playing directly old blues songs, they give the credits to where they belong. Of course it´s mostly trad, because no-one knows who made the originals. I have the original Zeppelin II in my hands and there is said: "Whole Lotta love by Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones & John Bonham". "Bring It On Home by Jimmy Page & Robert Plant". I think you guys didn´t listen the clips I put whole through. Plant took much words directly to Marriot and he´s singing really same way (well yes, Small Faces also put song in their names). I just played "Taurus" to my wife who isn´t in music really much at all and ask what song this is, she aswered "isn´t it Stairway to Heaven?". If you don´t hear it, you must be deaf.

Alas ! Having been more than introduced to Crimson, Yes, Floyd, The Nice, ELP, Beatles, Hendrix, Genesis, Egg, Hatfield, Gentle Giant, Soft Machine, Beefhart, Touch, Jethro, Magma, Sheller, Can, Faust, Tangerine ... yet I can't dismiss Zeppelin as a slightly more than average band with no real power and identity.

jayem wrote: Mortte wrote: I don´t believe the music history and how´s it today would have been really much different without Zeppelin, but I believe it would have been different without Rush. Shockin' ! Plant's playful and girly tone contrasting with dark power rythm section is very special. Also the amazing grooves in Good Times Bad Times and Black Dog; the mix of wit, fierceness, frivolity and melancholy in (studio's !) No Quarter... A song like The Crunge is unique too. Rush has solid and elaborate stuff but I haven't found the subtle mix of emotions from softness mixed with power I'd get in Zeppelin...

I think you should listen a lot more music of the same time, there was a whole lotta greater bands than Zeppelin.

Atavachron wrote: ^ I certainly did listen to your clips, I've seen them numerous times in the past while debating right here on this site over the same issue.

Mortte wrote: I don´t believe the music history and how´s it today would have been really much different without Zeppelin, but I believe it would have been different without Rush.

Have to correct my sayings, How Many More Times is not directly same as Beck´s Bolero. But the original verse is from Howlin Wolf`, the Hunter that´s in the middle of the song is from Booker T & the MG´s and there is a part from Beck´s Bolero. And who got the credits in the album cover? Suprise Suprise Page, Jones & Bonham!

Atavachron wrote: ^ I certainly did listen to your clips, I've seen them numerous times in the past while debating right here on this site over the same issue. If you want to accuse someone of being deaf who sees it differently, that's on you.   It is so very easy to say Zeppelin were thieves, and then to turn around and say Hendrix and the Stones and Syd friggin' Barrett were not.   But of course they were, and it is all there to hear when one sees the big rock 'n roll picture.   Heck, Bowie was a widely known 'borrower', and sometimes he would simply take a bit some other composer discarded or didn't value and develop it into something really good. Your issue seems to be the band not being honest and fessing-up, and that is undeniably true.   It is also perhaps regrettable.   But Zeppelin's real problem is that they got caught as they became too big for their own good.   Jimi Hendrix neglected to credit innumerable musicians but few have the balls to accuse him, that American bluesmaster, of theft.   No, not Jimi.

If you think they all are same kind of stealers, put me examples. Put a Jimi song that he stoled from somebody and took the credits himself. Also from Rolling Stones. Of course all those artists have listened old blues and borrowed things, but they evolve those to something at least little different. Zeppelin put there elements directly. Also one thing that I haven´t mentioned, the first Zeppelin album is a Page´s version to Jeff Beck´s Truth. There are even two same songs, You Shook Me (yes, they credited it Willie Dixon, which is really amazing with that other we steal what we want-ideal) and How Many More Times which they took directly to Beck´s Bolero. You might know which sold more and got more respection, Beck´s Truth or Led Zeppelin´s first?

^ I certainly did listen to your clips, I've seen them numerous times in the past while debating right here on this site over the same issue.

If you want to accuse someone of being deaf who sees it differently, that's on you.   It is so very easy to say Zeppelin were thieves, and then to turn around and say Hendrix and the Stones and Syd friggin' Barrett were not.   But of course they were, and it is all there to hear when one sees the big rock 'n roll picture.   Heck, Bowie was a widely known 'borrower', and sometimes he would simply take a bit some other composer discarded or didn't value and develop it into something really good.

Your issue seems to be the band not being honest and fessing-up, and that is undeniably true.   It is also perhaps regrettable.   But Zeppelin's real problem is that they got caught as they became too big for their own good.   Jimi Hendrix neglected to credit innumerable musicians but few have the balls to accuse him, that American bluesmaster, of theft.   No, not Jimi.

And might I add that Blues is a tradition, it is a platform for expression, and the players have been stealing from each other from the beginning.  That's the point of the music.

Mortte wrote: ^No, they haven´t given any credits to anybody at first place, when they are in court and judge says they have to give the credits, they´ve done it. And there has been situation where the original song makers has lost the cases (for example Spirit).  Listen these, if you have nerve to say they´re not direct stealings, I don´t think I have nothing more to say about this to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRXbi3pq7Y4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E Rolling Stones has never done as outrageous stealings.

Yes they have, the Stones were a blues band and therefore huge thieves.   That's how it works in music, the best thieves are noticed and rewarded.   Hendrix was an enormous thief, and the Beatles "reinterpreted" songs all the time: they practically recycled every American pop and rock 'n roll tune that existed.

As for the Small Faces cut, Willie Dixon's music and sound were being lifted by almost every English rock band around, Zep just did it better and with more skill.   And the Spirit song, the influence is so minimal that it's not worth debating.

Zeppelin advanced the blues by taking it somewhere no one else could take it (especially live).   When Hendrix passed, there was a huge gap in Electric Blues that the Stones and Johnny Winter and Joe Cocker and Eric Clapton couldn't fill.   So Zep stepped in and filled it in a big way.   No one pumped-out the energy and high quality blues/rock like LZ in their concerts and on vinyl.   Further, the band was ripped-off as much or more than anyone in rock history.

Who did Rush take their sound from?   What's that?, I didn't hear you ... ohhh yes, a little band called Led Zeppelin.




Edited by Atavachron - February 03 2018 at 17:13