yeah but since this is a music site, easy to make a point about the US invented music forms....on the other hand what Russia really gave us of best? was it their classical ballet? All Russians are proud of their ballet tradition, still one of the most influential in the world. But hey wtf!  today pretty much a worthless culture since no one gives a damn about it...... BTW, interesting how alao European traditional cultures are being gradually (though still slowly) ignored, losing space to the contemporary global mass cultures.....

DoctorD wrote: Argo2112 wrote:  Communist governments are generally oppressive regimes.  Capitalism too often fall pray to greed and generally favors a select few .  Religion is probably responsible for the most deaths of any force in history.  That's not to say there aren't good things that come from these but when people are  granted too much power through any of these institutions bad things tend to happen.  "Religion is probably responsible for the most deaths of any force in history." This is such a cliched and baseless statement. Get some real numbers to back your claim and get back to us.  Pretty please.

SteveG wrote: I kill you in the name of _____. (Insert god.)

I kill you upon the order of _______. (insert government.)

I kil you for the profit of _________. (insert business).

Sorry Argo211, I don't see ANY NUMBERS or DATA.  Try again. 
I'm afraid you'll find out that all the deaths that can be attributed to ALL the "holy wars" dwarfs in comparison to the deaths attributed to "atheistic" communist dictatorships like Stalin and Pol Pot.

Communism is cancer.  It has never worked on a national level and it never will.

BaldFriede wrote: SteveG wrote: I kill you in the name of _____. (Insert god.) I kill you upon the order of _______. (insert government.) I kil you for the profit of _________. (insert business).

Come on, Friede. Is killing in the name of a government or business really more ironic than killing in the name of a religion?

SteveG wrote: ......  Is killing in the name of a government or business really more ironic than killing in the name of a religion?

If You Hate Poverty, You Should Love Capitalism!

Arthur Brooks, president of the American Enterprise Institute
Script from PragerU...
(highlighted for emphasis)


The next time you hear someone complain about capitalism, consider this: The percentage of people living at starvation level poverty has fallen 80% since 1970. Before then, more than one in four people around the world were living on a dollar a day or less. Today, it’s about one in twenty. This is the greatest anti-poverty achievement in world history. So, how did this remarkable transformation come to pass? Was it the fabulous success of the United Nations? The generosity of U.S. foreign aid? The brilliant policies of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank? Stimulus spending? Government redistribution? No. It was none of those things. It was capitalism. Billions of souls around the world have been able to pull themselves out of poverty thanks to five incredible innovations: globalization, free trade, property rights, the rule of law, and entrepreneurship. Globalization means the ever-increasing ability to move goods, people, and ideas from one distant location to another. Free trade is open access to markets and people from all over the world with few, if any, barriers. Property rights is ensuring that what belongs to you can’t be taken away on a whim by the state. The rule of law safeguards contracts, assuring that they will be respected and lived up to whether the deal is made in Peru or Poland. And entrepreneurship is the creativity of free people to dream up new products that we never knew we wanted or needed. It’s worth noting that in places like East Asia, these five things were all made possible by the historic peace after World War II that resulted from America’s global diplomatic and military presence. Let me put this in a slightly different way: The ideals of free enterprise and global leadership, central to capitalism and American conservatism, are responsible for the greatest reduction in human misery since mankind began its long climb from the swamp to the stars. This remarkable progress has been America’s gift to the world. So, if these American conservative ideals have done so much to lift up the world’s poor, you would think conservative ideas would be gaining strength every single day – everywhere. And not just gaining strength among conservatives, but also among young idealists, immigrants, minorities, and advocates for the poor—all embracing the principles of free enterprise and unleashing its power on behalf of the vulnerable. But this hasn’t happened. To the contrary, capitalism is struggling to attract new followers. Indeed, some believe it’s destined to fade away – just as it has in much of Europe. According to a Harvard Study, only 42% of young Americans 18 to 29 have a favorable view of capitalism. What explains this discrepancy between the incredible results of capitalism and its popularity? Why does capitalism get such bad rap? One answer is simple: The defenders of free enterprise have done a terrible job of telling people how much good the system has done around the world. Capitalism has saved a couple billion people, and we have treated this miracle like a state secret. According to a 2013 survey, 84 percent of Americans are unaware of the progress made against poverty worldwide. Indeed, more than two-thirds think global hunger has actually gotten worse.

This ignorance has consequences because there is no substitute for capitalism and the five innovations that make it work. Years of economic research tells us no other system comes close. Certainly, not communism; not even socialism.

You need a system that works while you sleep. One that creates the foundations of human prosperity without “central planning” or benevolent bureaucrats. More capitalism, more growth. The formula might seem deceptively simple – but it works.

So, how we do lift up the next billion?

The answer should be clear: If you really want to help the poor, stand up for capitalism.

Surely many African countries with tax systems and free market mindsets just like the USA have had great numbers of inhabitants flee because of poverty and a lack of social security, and also you're not really talking about the dangers of each system here at all, but rather with a kind of total score which is pretty irrelevant to the theoritical nature of this thread.

Also also, 'since 1970 things have improved', hasn't free market economy been the status quo nearly everywhere in nearly all history before that? How would you say this number favors capitalism per se? He could also thank the sun and then go on to explain how photosynthesis has helped food production since 1970.

The concept of "public" and "free" the leftists have is absolutely moronic. I've lived 12 years under socialism.

"Free" things used to take two thirds of my salary. In order to pay for said "free" things taxes had to be taken not only in a straightforward way, but also by taxing every cog of the productive engine, from the guy who farms to the small market that sells goods. Goods in Argentina are two to ten times more expensive than in USA.

Corporations, working with the govt. benefited by rising the minimum wage and achieving tax exemptions for themselves in exchange for money. Now they can sell for a "lower" price and control the markets, making small enterpreneurs and independent workers like you and me (capitalists) rot.
Inflation (printing fiat money plus taxation) + rise in minumum wage are a great way the left has of controlling future votes and to stop blue collar workers from improving their situation, while making them think they are earning more.
Let's say a worker earns 600 Fiatsh*t a month and an apartment costs 10.000 fiatsh*t. He saves 300 every month for a good period of time. Now he has 8.500! YAY, he's moving up! Other workers didn't save squat.
Now inflation does its magic. Workers don't care about nor understand economy.
The leftist party in power comes with great news just in time, because prices are going up (by their own maneuvers): all workers will now earn 6.000 fiatsh*t! WOW! Everybody claps because the leftist govt. "for the people" passed a law improving their wages.

The thing is that raise was equal to the inflation and now the flat the guy was going to buy is 100.000 fiatsh*t and he only has 8.500 saved...tough luck. Let the poor be poor, because that means more votes for the left.

Communism is, obviously, even worse, since you are a freaking slave. The State (give it the name you want) takes everything you produce and gives you a pair of pants and a few grains of rice. You have no choice, no goods, no nothing.
"Everything is public" doesn't mean that everything belongs to everyone, it means that everything belongs to NO ONE but the commune that controls the country, not you. It's the same old totalitarian state under a different name.
Wanna chop some wood and make a shiny guitar?? LOL, no...you can't have private property and you can't exchange things. You are not the owner of that tree...
Wanna go away and live in the woods? LOL, no...you HAVE TO work for us. Also, you can't build a freaking house because, again, no propery is allowed.

You guys are posting in a page about music, about art.... how are some of you socialists? that makes no sense whatsoever.

Those who are against capitalism either don't know what capitalism is, what PRIVATE means, or are just crazy. Since it's the only rational system where you can make more than a freaking govt. official by working hard and improving everyone's lives in the process. By giving real jobs to people with your own money, instead of stealing from them. Is freedom that bad? for real?


Edited by Upbeat Tango Monday - September 12 2017 at 13:19