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Topic: The Beatles' Influence on Prog? Posted: February 11 2017 at 10:39
The Beatles' influence on Prog? Overstated, understated or just about right?
Some believe that Prog would never have existed if not for the Beatles, while other's claim no effect on artists like early Genesis. "What does Peter Gabriel have to do with John Lennon?" I once heard someone say. So what's the deal?
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Posted: February 11 2017 at 12:35
The influence is immense. Their progression as artists may seem tame by today's standards, but at the time they were very experimental and always sought to grow musically. Their earliest releases are straight rock and roll, and some of the best ever IMO, but starting with Rubber Soul, they started doing different things with their music. Listen to each one in succession from that point, all the way up to Abbey Road, and you will hear a tremendous growth. This spirit of experimentation infused the mid to late 60s and set the stage for what became known as Progressive Rock. That they were the most successful band even at that time is significant, because that made people pay attention. Experimentation and growth lead to success. The situation was almost completely the opposite of today. Now, if you want success, you have to follow a particular formula and sound very much like other successful artists. This is not to say there is not talent in today's musical world, there is, even in the top of the charts, but much of it is wasted due to the commercial demands.
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A pretty big influence I would say but by no means the only influence in the sixties. I think psychedelic is a better description than prog although admittedly some of their stuff may qualify as "proto prog." I think the following albums were all equally important in prog's development:
FZ & Mothers of Invention - Freak Out
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Beatles- Revolver, Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour
Moody Blues- Days of Future Passed
Procol Harum- same
The Nice- Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack
Pink Floyd- Piper at the Gates of Dawn
The Beatles are in there of course but they weren't alone.
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Posted: February 11 2017 at 14:43
It could be said the Four had an inspirational affectation on prog rock, but as for a musical one, much less clear. I tend to think Harum and Giles,Giles&Fripp and Zappa and the Who and Airplane and the MBs had a more direct influence.
But it was timing as much as anything; a convergence of talent, a generation of musically repressed, a whole lot of rock 'n roll lovers who wanted more.
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Posted: February 11 2017 at 21:24
On the beginning of their career, not much. Towards the end, when the psychedelic movement was turning into what we now call prog, they were a big part of it, not only for the music, but also for the significance of the Beatles name on people's tendencies.
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Posted: February 12 2017 at 12:20
It's probably overstated like most things in prog....but I think Fripp himself has said he was influenced by what The Beatles did to combine different elements of music to create a new sound in many of their later tracks.
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Posted: February 12 2017 at 12:42
SteveG wrote:
Some believe that Prog would never have existed if not for the Beatles, while other's claim no effect on artists like early Genesis. "What does Peter Gabriel have to do with John Lennon?" I once heard someone say. So what's the deal?
Sounds such as those 'koo koo.. koo koo....' sung by Lennon on 'I am The Walrus' are sure a key element Gabriel might have to do with him
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Posted: February 12 2017 at 16:41
Tillerman88 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Some believe that Prog would never have existed if not for the Beatles, while other's claim no effect on artists like early Genesis. "What does Peter Gabriel have to do with John Lennon?" I once heard someone say. So what's the deal?
Sounds such as those 'koo koo.. koo koo....' sung by Lennon on 'I am The Walrus' are sure a key element Gabriel might have to do with him
You mean like this?
Or this?
Nah, Peter Gabriel has nothing to do with John Lennon. Never even listened to his music. They sound nothing alike.
Edited by The Dark Elf - February 12 2017 at 16:45
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Posted: February 13 2017 at 13:38
Well, I have to say that Gabriel joined the Beatles' bandwagon a long time after his tenure with Genesis. The idea of Foxtrot era Genesis doing a cover of Day Tripper is quite beyond the pale and bloody horrible to even think about.
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Posted: April 03 2017 at 09:24
Their influence cannot be overstated. They were (and kinda still are) the biggest band in the world so everything they did got amplified like a force multiplier. There were others, of course, as noted by previous posts here but no one was going to change the world so completely as The Fab Four could and did.
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Posted: April 04 2017 at 02:41
There's more to prog than Genesis and Gabriel, and what differentiates them from most other nascent Prog bands is they were not London-based or part of the London scene; while the others either came from London or gravitated to it, Genesis were happy to orbit the home counties. Any influence the Beatles had on Genesis came purely from records and media appearances, and that kind of influence affected every musician who has ever formed a band regardless of the genre of music they play. The Beatles influence on Prog is much deeper than just the music and public image.
Despite being forever tagged as a Liverpool band the Beatles were for most of their musical career, in fact London-based and pretty much the centre of the London scene during the late 60s. And the importance of Swinging London on Psychedelic Pop & Rock and the embryonic Progressive Rock cannot be over-stated - San Francisco is the spiritual home of the Psychedelic movement and the alternative/underground scene but (Zappa aside, as he was lone odd-ball [even] in the SF scene) having plateaued very quickly as the soundtrack to the hippy movement, musically it was pretty staid and static, the creativity that initially vitalised American Psych found a comfortable far-out groove and stuck with it - being progressive in that scene referred to everything but music. Whereas over the pond, it was London's quirky, hodge-podge slant on psychedelia that continued what SF started, it provided the impetus that powered a progression in music that radiated out in a myriad of different directions as a consequence, and that gave birth to Prog Rock.
While the Beatles and the up and coming Psych and Prog bands were not quite in the same London social groups per se, the Fab Four were a peripheral but key part of the social scenes that grew up around the progressive underground and there was a degree of mutually reflective kudos in that association.
[Some people disagree when I say this, but] The Jimi Hendrix Experience were a London band (with an American front-man), and what they did was born out of that 'not-quite-counter-culture-but-close' London scene, and they too were part of that same nebulous underground scene that mixed mainstream rock/pop royalty (various members of the Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds etc.,) with the psych-folk/pop fringe-ers (Bolan & Donovan, and to some extent Bowie), the hard-rockers (Zepp, Sabbath, Purple & Heap), all the Canterbury & Ladbroke Grove bands, together with the likes of pre-Crimson Fripp, Pink Floyd, the Gentle Giants before they became Gentle Giant, Yes, The Nice=>ELP and VdGG etc.
Just how influential the Fab Four were on that cannot be measured in cover songs and musical development alone, nor can it be seen in innovation and approach to song writing and music production because that is too interleaved and too ingrained into the fabric of what the Beatles created from being an integral, though perhaps passive, part of the London underground and what those underground bands created also from that association. Whether this was direct inspiration or askance influence, they fed on each other.
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Posted: April 04 2017 at 04:07
We can never quantify influence, so the purpose of a post like this is hopefully to spark off a discussion. One caveat I must put forward was Hendrix heavily relying on the Fabs "psychedelic" studio manipulation. I cannot imagine an album like Are You Experienced coming out without Revolver predating it.
Edited by SteveG - April 04 2017 at 04:07
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Posted: April 04 2017 at 05:11
Absolutely. And I think proximity and location played a major role in how that influence was felt, I cannot imagine an album like Are You Experienced coming out had Hendrix stayed in New York (or moved to SF).
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Posted: April 04 2017 at 08:37
The other thing to consider is Revolver is also a product of location, and I wonder how it would have turned-out if The Beatles had got their way and recorded it in a more modern American studio as they wished. I suspect it would have been considerably different as a result, not just because transposing themselves into a completely different cultural environment would have brought a completely different vibe to the whole thing (much like Bowie's Young Americans is a uniquely "Philadelphia meets NY" album and his Berlin-trillogy are uniquely "Berlin" albums), but also because being forced to use Abbey Road (again) meant that necessity became the mother of invention.
Abbey Road was essentially part of EMI's corporate electronics industry establishment and for that was un-hip and somewhat antiquated by comparison to US studios that were purpose-built for specific record labels and music genres. Basically it operated like a branch of the civil service, similar to the BBC and General Post Office. The studio innovations that the Beatles and George Martin pioneered were born out of having to use Abbey Road's older equipment.
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Posted: April 04 2017 at 09:46
I agree on all counts. While not an accurate example, my old Dad use to say that "familiarity breeds imitation". If not actually imitators, the proximity of Hendrix to the Beatles cannot be underestimated as to influence, and to that mystical thing called zeitgeist.
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The Beatles' Influence on Prog?
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