Who was the first prog band to have metal elements

Rush 2112 = Prog metal.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 14 2016 at 12:55

BaldFriede wrote: Dellinger wrote: I would throw in "I Want You (She's so Heavy)", from The Beatles. As for 80's songs, "Machine Messiah" by Yes. How about "Helter Skelter"?

I have read often about people considering Helter Skelter metal sounding, but I just can't hear it. For me it's just a heavy and crazy song, but doesn't have the distorted guitars that for me make the music metal... on the other hand, that ending on I Want You is much closer to what sounds like metal to me.

(Rainbow certainly more valid than Rush!)

Mike: Sorry not directly quoting, but I get walls of code when I quote which need cleaning up, and then I don't like to lose any context by not quoting in full.

As for the topic title, it's no big deal. It's not always easy to come up with an adequately descriptive title in few words (phrasing the title in the form of a question tends to require more words.... I often resort to ellipses at the end, but that rarely looks good to me). Sorry, totally unimportant point to start with but I just woke up.

I don't consider Rush to be metal, I call it hard rock, but it does have elements of what I consider to be metal (or classic heavy metal qualities). For me there were metal elements in Progressive Rock going back to the late 60s, but I guess it depends upon how broadly one defines metal, Prog, and what particular elements one considers characteristic of metal music. I've known some who don't consider classic heavy metal to be metal, but I'm not one of them. There are lots of styles of metal with varying expressions and themes such as death metal, thrash metal, speed metal, aluminum, Christian metal, and of course kimono metal which traditionally should be played by geisha girls that look like Geddy Lee. ;)

I would consider Rainbow to be more metal than Rush. A valid band to mention from what I know, which is only the band's 70's output. I only know Rainbow's first two albums, but those are on the heavy metal spectrum -- rainbow, spectrum, get it? -- and I would consider Rainbow Rising as Prog enough. But yes if talking earlier than 80's albums, then certainly.

Just in case it wasn't clear, I mentioned that Rush album (Permanent Waves) particularly due its release date, January 1, 1980 as I wanted to think of something Prog that was released as soon after the 1970's as possible that has a heavy metal quality without necessarily being metal. It's a progressive hard rock album that I would not define as metal but still has elements that I associate with metal. In a sense, all rock can be associated with metal, though.

zravkapt wrote: There were metal bands influenced by prog in the '80s, but they were considered metal and not prog. Since the 80s there has been a growing metal influence in some prog. So, from my view, the OP is looking for a metal band from the 80s that was influenced by prog, not a prog band from the 90s influenced by metal.

Well, the same band has another album from 1972 who is from the same vein from that one..

If the 70s are ruled out, so lets have a look at the 80s.

Edited by TheH - December 15 2016 at 15:58

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Logan wrote: I personally think that Rush's Permant Waves makes more sense for the topic since he's asking for post 70s, and Permanent Waves was released on January 1st, 1980. I wonder if he means bands that debuted post 70s, though. The OP combined with topic title is rather ambiguous to me even with the explanation. Yes, I did. I was interested in hearing about bands post seventies at the minimum. I guess I wasn't too clear about that and I also wasn't clear in the title(but there's only so much room). I apologize for the confusion.  In my mind however there wasn't really any metal elements in prog until the 90's. There were proto metal elements(Uriah Heep, Rush and King Crimson for example)but I don't necessarily consider them metal enough and even if I did they were pre 80's. Unlike many on here I never really considered Rush to be a metal band anyway. Does singing about ancient greek culture and technology and wearing Kimonos scream metal to you? To me it sure doesn't. Maybe if there is such a thing as geek metal but to me that would be an oxymoron. Metal is suppose to be about blood and death and sex and throwing the horns. Isn't it?  It's interesting to me that Rainbow hasn't been mentioned. Wouldn't they be just as valid as Rush? Or were they not prog enough? Not really sure. I only have their first album and need to listen to it again. Since you guys mentioned it and since my title didn't say post seventies I'm ok with exploring pre 80's.  For me the best examples of songs that combined prog metal or early metal with prog(or by bands who were more prog) would be : Genesis- The Knife (maybe the musical box too) King Crimson- 21st century Schizoid man, pictures of a city, larks tongues in aspic part one, red Pink Floyd- The Nile song Deep Purple- Child in Time Uriah Heep (first album) Black Sabbath (well I hear prog elements in there although I admit the prog elements were stronger on later albums) Also, the band High Tide were apparently the first(or at least one of the first)to combine prog with metal(or metallish elements or at least or heavy/hard rock)

From Rainbow you should check out Rising... and the live album On Stage. I just got the first one recently, and I found it very enjoyable, but Rising is better, and "Watcher of the Skies" is my favourite song from them... plus perhaps a perfect example of what you want as an early mix of prog and metal. On Stage has some songs from the first one, and for me they are much better.