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Trollheart 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Points: 122
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 Topic: Prog Album Survivor
Posted: November 20 2016 at 12:58 |
Another idea stolen from my previous forum, but nobody there liked prog enough for it to work. The idea is that you give a list of say ten prog albums, vote one, two or three (as required) off until you have one overall winner. This means you end up in the somewhat disconcerting position of having to vote off an album you really like in order to save an album you really, really like. A real "Sophie's Choice of Prog", huh? Hey, it's fun!
Anyway, to ensure that not just one album runs to the finish line (cough) Close to the what? (cough) it's usually subdivided into subgenres, so with that in mind, and assuming anyone is interested, can you submit your ideas, both for subgenres and for albums for those lists? I can think of, off the top of my nearly bald head, Symphonic Prog, Eclectic Prog, Prog Metal, Folk Prog, Neo Prog, Instrumental Prog (?), Space Prog, Psychedelic Prog (are they the same?), but I'm sure there are more.
If anyone thinks this is a good idea, please post with your ideas and we'll see if we can get it going, though not until we have full lists. And if you don't think it's a good idea, then I hope something slightly unpleasant happens to you, like an onion falling on your head...  Thanks. TH
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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Magnum Vaeltaja
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Posted: November 20 2016 at 13:04 |
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This sounds like a cool idea, but I'm not sure I'm entirely grasping how it works. Would it possible to go through an example round just to get a better feel for how the game goes?
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Trollheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 122
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Posted: November 20 2016 at 14:42 |
Sure. Let's just leave subgenres for a moment and take a random slice of prog. You get ten albums per subgenre in the actual game.
So, say round one is
Genesis Nursery Cryme Camel Camel Yes 90125 Rush A Farewell to Kings Alphataurus s/t Barclay James Harvest s/t The Nice The Thoughts of yer man Marillion Misplaced Childhood IQ Tales from the Lush Attic Twelfth Night Fact and Fiction
I then say vote two off, voting ends on day x. The first person who votes says I vote Alphataurus and IQ off. Depending on how many people vote albums off, those albums are then removed from the list, so you end up with eight "survivors", of which we then all have to vote off another two, until finally we're down to one. At the end of the whole thing, each subgenre may be matched against the others to come up with a final Prog Rock Album Survivor.
That make sense? If not, feel free to let me know what still worries you. It does sound slightly complicated, but it's not really, and it is a blast, or it can be, if enough people join in.
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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Magnum Vaeltaja
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Posted: November 20 2016 at 18:09 |
Okay, that makes a bit more sense. So I guess in the actual game, someone would post 10 albums from 10 subgenres (for 100 albums total), then someone else would vote two albums out, and so forth until there was only one album left per subgenre? Then everyone would start voting those albums out until there was only 1 left?
Does that sound about right, or am I even more confused than when we started?  |
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Kingsnake
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Joined: November 03 2006
Location: Rockpommelland
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 01:48 |
Shall I add 10 albums to the list, to keep a momentum going? I guess we need at least 10 players to get to an 100 total album list, and then start voting?
Queen - A Day at the Races Saga - Generation 13 Susanne Sundfør - The Silicone Veil Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior Hawkwind - Levitation Barclay James Harvest - Once Again Moody Blues - Seventh Sojourn Queensrÿche - Operation Mindcrime Gentle Giant - Free Hand Marillion - Clutching at Straws
Is that covering enough subgenres?
Edited by Kingsnake - November 21 2016 at 01:49
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Kotro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 16 2004
Location: Portugal
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 02:06 |
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I suppose to vote off albums one should have heard all of them, correct? Otherwise it would be too easy (and not very honest) to simply discard albums one does not know.
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Bigger on the inside.
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Kingsnake
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Location: Rockpommelland
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 02:19 |
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Songs would be an easier task, then.
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Trollheart
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Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Points: 122
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 05:18 |
OK, you nearly have it, but perhaps my explanation was not the best. It's not 10 albums over a number of subgenres; it's 10 albums PER subgenre. Sp for instance if we did, say, symphonic prog first, you might have, I don't know, Within Temptation, Saga, Iluvatar, even ELO maybe, ten of those. Then EVERYONE votes for their least favourite, say, two albums. Once the round of voting is over we go back, and vote off another two of what's left, until we're down to one. Then a different subgenre is tackled. I'd imagine it would be a rule only one artiste per subgenre.
If you prefer to do songs ok, but remember how hard it is in the first place choosing, say, your favourite Yes album for a subgenre. Actually, it's not your favourite, but the one seen as being the best of their catalogue, as this is supposed to eventually produce, to coin a phrase, the best prog album ever. Now imagine limiting yourself to one song! Think albums makes it an easier choice, but whatever you guys are comfortable with its fine with me.
The list submitted by KingSnake is good but covers too many subgenres and therefore makes it hard to pick the correct albums for the list. So it needs to be ALL of ONE subgenre. And yes, it's best if you can listen to the albums, thereby the delay in closing voting, to give everyone a chance to hear the albums. Initially, I guess, the first vote would not take place until everyone has had what would be considered a decent time to listen to as many of the albums as they need to.
Edited by Trollheart - November 21 2016 at 05:20
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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Trollheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 122
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:01 |
If we assume people are interested in this, here are the next steps:
1. We need a complete, cohesive and agreed list of subgenres. I've suggested some in the OP but there are surely more. Anyone who has ideas please post.
2. Once we have the subgenres, we need albums to fill each. These should be the recognised or agreed best from the artistes, not just your own personal favourites. Generally, 10 albums per list is the thing, but we can do more if you want. Just remember, the more albums there are the more (potentially) you have to listen to, unless you're some sort of prog god. The number should be uniform though, ie you can't have 10 albums for symphonic prog and 20 for prog metal etc.
3. Once all the lists are filled, we decide on a time limit for listening to all the albums in the first subgenre list we decide to use. This should be enough time to hear all of the albums in the list or the ones people have not heard already. I usually recommend a week for this.
4. Voting begins on the first subgenre.
So, can we try to arrange sorting stage 1 then?
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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mechanicalflattery
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Location: Seattle
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Points: 1056
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:28 |
Symphonic Eclectic Italian Post/Math Krautrock Jazz Rock/Fusion Electronic Neo RIO/Avant Space/Psychedelic
Just leave metal out since lots of people don't care for it. If it must be there, replace Electronic, since that's mainly just ambient stuff that again many people may not care for. Only crucial genres missing are Canterbury, which might be incorporated in jazz fusion, heavy (which is mostly just Rush anyway, so who cares), and Folk, which again is mostly just Jethro Tull. Throw them into the eclectic pile if you like. I'd have no problem replacing Neo with Crossover, but that's just me. Shall this work for your purposes? Stringent rule sets generally don't seem to go over well around these parts, you should probably just play it by ear.
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Kingsnake
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Joined: November 03 2006
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:40 |
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I don't listen to Italian, Post/math and RIO/Avant
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Logan
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:21 |
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And I don't make it a habit to listen to Neo Prog, Prog Metal, or much Symph -- doesn't matter.
I would cover all of the Prog categories in PA, but I would avoid albums that do not fit their categories at all as much as possible. For instance, I would not include Miles Davis' Kind of Blue.
Edited by Logan - November 21 2016 at 12:23
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Trollheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 122
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 14:53 |
The fact that some people would not listen to some sub-subgenres, as it were, is not surprising, and will of course mean that those people don't vote when it comes around to those subgenres' time. That's cool. As for prog metal, well I love it, but then, I came from a mostly metal site so I can understand how it might be out of place here. I do wonder though if bands like Shadow Gallery, Silent Edge and Threshold might work into any other category? If not, ok.
As for rules, nobody likes 'em, but without some sort of guidance a thread like this descends into chaos, as people decide to do this and that, and it just doesn't work. There aren't many rules, but for this to have a chance I think people intending to participate should expect to follow what few there are.
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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Trollheart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2016
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 122
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 14:55 |
 Logan wrote:
And I don't make it a habit to listen to Neo Prog, Prog Metal, or much Symph -- doesn't matter.
I would cover all of the Prog categories in PA, but I would avoid albums that do not fit their categories at all as much as possible. For instance, I would not include Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. |
Yeah, I think that's probably the best advice. I'll check the main page and jot down the cats.
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Trollheart: as Irish as losing a 3-0 lead in a must-win fixture!
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