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zumacraig 
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Joined: December 10 2011
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 Topic: Elements of Current Prog
Posted: May 31 2016 at 10:22 |
Friends,
Below is all my humble opinion of course 
This is a topic that has been rattling around in my head for several years. Especially, concerning the last 15 years of symphonic, prog metal, crossover, heavy prog and neo-prog. There seems to be an acquiescence to a basic set of production elements/values that characterize said said sub-genres (probably all 21st century 'prog'). To my ears, these elements include a big live soundstage with drums in the center back, guitars/bass/keys in the middle and then lead vocals up front. Harmony is usually floating on the sides. Drums are usually pretty wet with lots of reverb. This creates what sounds like a big sound from a small drum set. Rhythm guitar is usually a clean/phat distorted sound with clean arpeggios mixed in. Solos are always full of reverb, clean/distorted and soaring over the entire mix. Bass is either is droning on the bottom end or the notes are audible a la Chris Squire. This is almost always the case. Keys always seem to sound digital with many effects to make them sound huge and pervasive. Some square lead here and there. Then vox are big as well.
All musicianship is totally competent to amazing. It’s staggering to me. However, I find it a bit samey. Definitely with guitars. The identifiable guitarist sound more and more a rarity. Songs have definitely moved away from verse/chorus structures. Which is good to my ears. Always pleasing melodies, but not too memorable to these ears. Vocals are always touch and go for me. Sometimes very weak and off key or very expressive to the point of musical theater. And of course the shorter songs, sound bit intro and the EPIC! And, many times way too many songs in the case of some bands (Flower Kings :p). Influence of the CD creep.
So not to be reductionist (maybe a bit), but we have some some 80s production influence, Squire inspired bass, big keys, expressive vocals and Petrucci guitar.
Anyway, just some ideas that might make for good conversation. I’m always curious about what element(s) of music make some works classic, middle of the road, meh or awful. Obviously, there are many exceptions to the outline above. Do you like this style? Do you prefer others? Dare I say, is this a good thing or limiting?
Prog On!
Zuma
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Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt
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Icarium
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Posted: May 31 2016 at 10:46 |
maybe they should bring it back to a basis, sort of into a Simon & Garfunkle mode were acoustic and vocal harmonies takes centre, and the ambience of less is more is the sound that cherrish, like the song the Boxer, which roams between acuoustic and electric and has this appeal that is not preachy nor simple, but neither complex nor without message, another band and song which creates this ballance is Supertramp with Asylum with this ambience between calm and violence, aspecting one of the core elements of music, dynamics. bands of todays prog sometimes forgett the difference between soft, and hard, leight and heavy, light and darkness, there is no distinct oppesition or duality in todays symph or heavy prog, that creates this timbre, of drama and comedy, of message and joy.
I also would hailmark Robert Wyatts attempts in Rock Bottom, that wants to aim at comercial but also wants to aim at the special, and creates this tension and wonderuss distress between wonderfull melodies, simply amazing bass lines, and this post-modern way of thinking atmosphere and texture.
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zumacraig
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 10 2011
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Points: 1301
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Posted: June 01 2016 at 12:18 |
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Ah, good points. Prog integrating dark/light and everything in between. Makes sense. I'd add tension release as a specific example. I like both...less is more...and symphonic excess!
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Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt
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Icarium
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Posted: June 02 2016 at 04:25 |
 zumacraig wrote:
Ah, good points. Prog integrating dark/light and everything in between. Makes sense. I'd add tension release as a specific example. I like both...less is more...and symphonic excess! |
in a way Fountain of Salamicis - Genesis hit both elements on the nerve, both less is more and symphonic exess, and dark/light.
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Project Nightscape
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Joined: May 28 2016
Location: Oregon USA
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Points: 30
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Posted: June 04 2016 at 02:09 |
zumacraig wrote:
All musicianship is totally competent to amazing. It’s staggering to me. However, I find it a bit samey. Definitely with guitars. The identifiable guitarist sound more and more a rarity. Songs have definitely moved away from verse/chorus structures. Which is good to my ears. Always pleasing melodies, but not too memorable to these ears. Vocals are always touch and go for me. Sometimes very weak and off key or very expressive to the point of musical theater. |
I'm producing a prog rock concept album now that's intended to strike a balance between classic Sabbath/ Queensryche-style rock and Rush/Floyd-style prog. What's curious is that even the simplest songs have taken on much more theatricality than we anticipated, in part, through the gradual accretion of instrumentation and in part through the performative nature of our vocalists. This dynamic is compounded by the fact that the album has a strong narrative element, so there are a couple of songs in which our male and female leads trade verses, giving the arrangements an innate bombast.
At the same time, we've amped up the melodies by crafting a lot of complementary harmonics. Some songs have more of a traditional verse-chorus-verse structure than others, but in each case we've striven to "surprise" the listener with tempo changes or alterations in the expected arrangement, e.g., inverting the chord structure the chorus for the outro. I'm learning how challenging it is to hew close enough to a recognizable structure to create memorable melodies while ensuring the type of looseness that allows for pleasant (and in hindsight, natural-sounding) surprises.
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https://projectnightscape.bandcamp.com/releases
www.nightscapeseries.com
In music the passions enjoy themselves. - Nietzsche
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brainstormer
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Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: June 15 2016 at 00:26 |
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I think a lot of exposure to Prog over the years naturally leads some to classical, some perhaps more to jazz and classical. I can understand why younger people like modern prog, but I think perhaps a lot of older prog fans move on to classical or jazz. I don't think there is any reason to criticize younger or modern prog bands of having any lack of anything, as you say, the musicianship is excellent I came to this conclusion maybe about a year ago. Before, i was trying to fit the innovation of the 70s into a modern time frame, and it wasn't really for me to say. It just wasn't my music and yet I thought since I grew up with early Prog I thought my opinion mattered. I've happily settled on listening to other types of music, instead of being bitter about not finding modern prog something to always be listening to.
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Robert Pearson
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Atavachron
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Posted: June 15 2016 at 00:28 |
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"Samey" is right. Luckily a few prog artists still believe in evolution.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Elements of Current Prog
