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David64T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog Rock FAQ by Will Romano
    Posted: January 04 2016 at 07:59
I found this book at a local bookstore on the weekend, and thought I'd start this thread (since there doesn't seem to be one yet).

The book is one of an ongoing series of "FAQ" books from the publisher (Backbeat Books), so that explains the title.

However, a quick flip through the book suggests it is in fact no "FAQ" - it's more a digest of wildly varying material including interviews, essays and annotated "lists". Perhaps this aggregation of data will answer some FAQ in passing, but not more than that. It's more like a magazine in book form really.

So far, some items have been of interest (e.g. the essay about mellotrons, the interview with David Jackson of VDGG), some of it less so (in general, the lists and analysis/opinion pieces, though there are some interesting facts spread throughout). The level of interest will of course depend on the specific interests of the reader. Smile

The 15 page Introduction which a reader might initially think would give an overview of Prog Rock, or maybe even an overview of the book itself, instead flaps briskly through a "mixed bag" of mini essays, including a selection of modern prog record labels, Christian Prog Rock, Kings X/Grunge and finishes with a tribute to Peter Banks.

After that, Chapter 1 is an exhaustive essay on the proto-prog band Clouds; worthy but not really what I'd expect to find as the first chapter of an "FAQ" on progressive rock.

I've made it up to chapter 7 (an interview with the artist who did the cover artwork of "Lizard" for King Crimson).

With it's "grab bag" approach and content, it seems like the kind of book which would be bought as a Christmas present (or a birthday present, given that Christmas is recently behind us), rather than the kind of book which a reader would buy for themselves.

Here are the chapter titles, which should give a good idea of the content of the book:

Introduction: Signs of the Aprogalypse
1 Clockwork Soldiers: Are Proto-Prog Rockers Clouds the True Fathers of a Musical Movement?
2 Of Pawn Hearts and Horn Parts: A Q&A with Former Van der Graaf Generator Saxophonist David Jackson
3 The Mellotron: Raising the Mammoth
4 Mindcrimes and Misconceptions: Concept Albums (That Are and Aren't)
5 Move On Alone: A Q&A with Mick Abrahams
6 The Gates of Delirium: Top 20 BIG Compositions
7 King Crimson's Lizard: Beyond the Bizarre and Beautiful Album Cover Artwork
8 Escapist Artists: Designing and Creating Prog Rock's Wondrous Visuals
9 The Cinema Show: Prog's Celluloid Heroes
10 Italian Cult Bands: Inside the Making of Two Classic Records
11 Crafty Hands: Happy the Man
12 Blinded by the Lite? A Look Inside Prog's Number-One Song
13 Prog Gets Punk'd: What Caused the Decline of the Genre?
14 Heavy Horsesh#$!: Examining Prog's Criminal Record and Critiquing Critical Reaction
15 Yes, an Implosion? The Behind-the-Scenes Drama of a Rock Powerhouse
16 Wise After the Event: An Anthony Phillips Q&A
17 Shock to the System: Henry Cow and Rock in Opposition
18 Jack the Ripper and Other Musical Villains: Univers Zero's Daniel Denis
19 The Defector's Dream Team: Steve Hackett---His Exit from Genesis and His Musical Triumphs
20 Any Colour You Like: Tull, Eddie Jobson, and the Mysterious Pink Album
21 My Own Time: Highlights of John Wetton's Journeyman Career
22 Asia "Minor"? John Payne Discusses His (Largely Underappreciated) Years with the Prog-Pop Band Asia
23 ELP's Black Moon Rising: Romantic Warriors in Enemy Territory
24 Anglagard: Riding the Third Wave
25 District 97 Q&A: Gender Politics and Prog
26 It's Worth Repeating: Minimalism, Steve Reich, and Radiohead
27 Collins' Cosmos: Who, or What, Is Dimensionaut?
28 Scale the Summit: Sense the Adventure Metal---A Q&A with Chris Letchford


Edited by David64T - January 04 2016 at 08:03
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altaeria View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2016 at 16:14
I just stumbled upon this book also.  It is definitely worth purchasing. 

After years of listening to (and reading about) Prog Rock, 
this is my first exposure to Billy Ritchie and 1-2-3/Clouds. 

If the information (and opinions) provided by the author is remotely accurate, 
then it sure does seem like Billy Ritchie ushered in the Symph Prog keyboard era. 



Edited by altaeria - January 15 2016 at 16:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 12:41
Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:

I just stumbled upon this book also.  It is definitely worth purchasing. 

After years of listening to (and reading about) Prog Rock, 
this is my first exposure to Billy Ritchie and 1-2-3/Clouds. 

If the information (and opinions) provided by the author is remotely accurate, 
then it sure does seem like Billy Ritchie ushered in the Symph Prog keyboard era. 


He certainly had a great deal to do with it, as David Bowie (and recently Jon Anderson) have said. But beyond that, this is an excellent book. I would however, suggest reading it in a 'pick and mix' fashion, rather than cover to cover. There are so many interesting angles and stories, better read that way than trying to approach it as a chronological tale.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2016 at 00:20
Originally posted by DiamondDog DiamondDog wrote:

Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:

I just stumbled upon this book also.  It is definitely worth purchasing. 

After years of listening to (and reading about) Prog Rock, 
this is my first exposure to Billy Ritchie and 1-2-3/Clouds. 

If the information (and opinions) provided by the author is remotely accurate, 
then it sure does seem like Billy Ritchie ushered in the Symph Prog keyboard era. 


He certainly had a great deal to do with it, as David Bowie (and recently Jon Anderson) have said. But beyond that, this is an excellent book. I would however, suggest reading it in a 'pick and mix' fashion, rather than cover to cover. There are so many interesting angles and stories, better read that way than trying to approach it as a chronological tale.

This looks like an excellent book.  It's great now with modern publishing that gifted authors can get their work out there in a solid form instead of just relying on various magazines strewn across time and distance

As I've mentioned elsewhere on the site recently, I enjoy the discussion of Proto-Prog.  I don't really like giving opinions of people's music that much because it's always personal and subjective.  It's the price one pays for being an artist: not everyone is going to like your music.  It's kind of tough, people decide in the end who is really gifted and who isn't.  

While it's undoubted that Ritchie had something to do with the speed in which Prog started and where, I think Prog needed a lot of other people to take off.  When you listen to how good the Nice, Yes and others are in those early days, it's really like apples and oranges....there are other Proto-Prog bands that were of the same quality as the Nice, and you can listen to their music a lot and it doesn't sound bad as it ages.   Different people will champion different bands and have their champion Proto-Prog bands.  I've seen the debates before on here with this subject matter.  My point if you don't like Clouds, it's not some kind of sin. A lot of their music is blues based from what I've heard.  Real Prog was able to introduce classical modes into rock, and even so-called Proto-Prog did that in an amazing way.  Witness the Baroque pop bands, even the big hit A Lovers Concerto from 1965, which I believe was in the top five in the UK. 



Edited by brainstormer - March 29 2016 at 00:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2016 at 04:34
Absolutely true and fair to say that music is purely subjective - Good to hear someone acknowledge that! So much criticism is unfair and prejudiced by personal taste, it's unhealthy (and very stupid!), but sadly, the vast majority of comments are based on that fact. We are all entitled to our personal tastes, but we should remember they are personal, not liking something doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.

As for Ritchie/Clouds (or more accurately, 1-2-3), there's little doubt that they had a major influence on The Nice, Yes/ELP, King Crimson, and many more, during that crucial time of 1966-67. The Clouds recordings actually bring confusion to that story, as they came much later than the live performances that actually influenced so many.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2016 at 05:02
This is the best post I've seen here on this subject (by Malraux):-

    "It is the work that went on before any records were recorded, especially when the band were known as 1-2-3 in their pre Clouds days, that indicated that an iconoclastic musical form was emerging.
 
I believe that only one track, hastily recorded on a tape machine by an audience member even exists of 1-2-3 in action. They did not record and even when they later recorded as 'Clouds', they were best known as a live band.
 
I saw a few performances of the band in their 1-2-3 and later Clouds identities, and believe me that the audiences who were musically quite well informed in those days were split in their opinions. Some were amazed, while others puzzled. It was indeed a new and emerging form of music.
 
Of course, it is ridiculous to suggest that any one band 'invented' progressive rock music, and again I am not sure that this is what is being claimed. The music of 1-2-3 was unique in style at the time, but there were other Hammond players, like Mike Ratledge for example who were taking the sound of the instrument beyond the Jimmy Smith thing, albeit in a different direction. What 1-2-3 introduced was an organ fronted blend of musical styles which was just not being played anywhere else by anyone else.
 
What helped was the superb musicianship of this trio. Harry Hughes for example who has to be one of the most acomplished drummers in the genre and is one of the few drummers I have seen who can do the 'Buddy Rich' one hand drum roll.
 
My six cents worth.
 
M."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2016 at 14:54
Book can be heavy going at times, but worth the read. Clockwork Soldiers is a great chapter title and the stuff about 123 and Peter Banks is great, as well as the Steve Hackett bit and a lot more.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2016 at 07:31
Excellent book, though I accept the earlier comments about not exactly being "FAQ". Absolutely apt that the first chapter "Clockwork Soldiers" is about 1-2-3 (Clouds), a crucial influence. I personally enjoyed many sections, including the mellotron and escaping artists.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2016 at 20:25
Maybe the history of Proto-Prog will not be able to be written until fifty years from now.   I think we may be too close.  There is always that "underdog syndrome," which wants to avoid people who got more popular as possibly being important innovaters.  Then there are people that are just stuck in blues scale heaven, and don't really understand what musical innovation is all about.  I've been around people that saw themselves as great composers who never had lessons and couldn't write an innovative chord progression to save their lives, lol.   Music means something special, and doesn't mean "everything and the kitchen sink."   Progressive rock music also doesn't mean playing around in blues scales but having pauses differently than regular bands, and other such things that aren't related to mode and chord structure.   Music criticism is always a mean business I guess, as is success and failure in music. But how can you talk about it without having opinions on people's tastes in music? 




Edited by brainstormer - April 07 2016 at 20:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2017 at 12:49
The more I read this book, the better it gets. What a great reference source. I was intrigued by the Clockwork Soldiers opening chapter bringing Clouds and 1-2-3 to the forefront of the genre, but there was so much more beneath the surface. Only the title seems misplaced, it's hardly an 'FAQ', but is a real treasure just the same.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2017 at 13:53
I rather found the book to be all over the place. It has a LOT of useful information but is difficult to read covr to cover.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2017 at 15:03
Originally posted by doompaul doompaul wrote:

It has a LOT of useful information but is difficult to read covr to cover.

Yes, exactly! When I wrote my original post, I'd made it as far as Chapter 7 - in case my initial comments seemed dismissive, I did subsequently finish reading the book, though I skipped some chapters I wasn't that interested in, it's that sort of book.

One section in particular struck me, the chapter on Manfred Mann which gave some insight into how MMEB came up with Joybringer and also probably explains how MMEB came to cover two songs originally recorded by Australian group Spectrum and written (of course) by Mike Rudd.

Yes, I still don't think the book amounts to an "FAQ", but, as a wide-ranging anthology of writing on prog and related music, it's definitely worth checking out...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2017 at 14:34
I agree with many of the comments here, to me, the title is misleading, hardly an 'FAQ'. Also agree that it's not a cover to cover read, but it's a joy to read and pick pieces from, that's it's real strength. Also ahead of the curve, when you see the section on Clouds/1-2-3, anticipating the mainstream surge about the band's influence on 70s music, and that's not the only forecast contained in the book. Many interesting comments and sections about other pioneers and unsung heroes. Daring and insightful. A good book to have on the shelf.
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