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DDPascalDD View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to learn guitar
    Posted: January 02 2016 at 02:39
To all guitar players or people who know about it:
What is the best way to learn to play guitar?

I want to focus the most on electric guitar and making solos. I've got some musical knowledge because I play piano for about 8 years so that must help me I guess.

Any help will be appreciated!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 06:20
My instruments on hand currently and in order of preference to picking or firing up are a classical acoustic, synthesizer, and electric guitar.

The best way to learn to play electric guitar is not to learn to play electric guitar.  You should probably isolate yourself from others and just experiment.  Go with the flow and improvise.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 07:24
We seem to have a glut of "Guitar Soloists" at the moment.
Far better in my opinion, is to aspire to become a better all round musician.
It's not about how fast you can talk, but rather about what you have to say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 07:29
^But I want to be all-round. To expand my abilities, I first want to improve my guitar solos
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 09:13
I have some thoughts on that. Give me an hour.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 09:42
Personally you can't beat face to face lessons with a tutor. YouTube videos are quite useful up to a point but you can't ask questions!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 10:59
^ I will get to that later in this post.

============================== @ OP: ==============================

I think it depends on how far you want to take the definition of "all-around". There could probably be different kinds, different degrees of being "all-around". Does this include being eclectic? Does this include having the knack for being a great experimenter?

For right now, I am going to make an assumption for us and say that being all-around just vaguely means being skillful.

Warning: I'm not an all-round player, nor do I know anything about how to become one, so I can't be a very proficient player.

I would have to imagine that the key is dedication. You should develop the ethic for working hard. Quitting is not an option. However, in my personal experience, that's the kind of discipline that has been keeping me from becoming a proficient player for years, because I wasn't having fun. You are either cut out for it or not.

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

My instruments on hand currently and in order of preference to picking or firing up are a classical acoustic, synthesizer, and electric guitar.
The best way to learn to play electric guitar is not to learn to play electric guitar.  You should probably isolate yourself from others and just experiment.  Go with the flow and improvise.
I would have to say that's a very good advice. But I don't think you can have fun unless you get the right sound.

I. What's the style that you'd like to become proficient at and  have fun with? Jazz? Rock? Blues? Find the guitar and the amp that are right for you and your style of interest. Figure out how to get the sound you want because that's key in playing/hearing music. Ask the sales associates. Take notes on how the controls work. Then buy/rent the gear. If you do not get the right sound, do not wonder why you think you sound like crap.

II. Have fun with the gear. Internalize every bit of it. Get a feel for where and what notes are on the fretboard, what note range each of the EADGBE strings has. Note the difference between how the same note (C4, F5, Eb4, etc.) sounds on two-three different strings (654, 543, 432, or 321). Play around with the standard/open/alternate tunings (though I read that way your strings will get wear-and-tear quicker).

III. I would imagine that being resourceful is also important since it's a quality that should help you meet your  demands. chopper is right: some sort of coaching will help you speed up the learning process, be that via YouTube, fretjam.com, or any other source.

    1) Improvisation, like any other process, takes you from point A to point B. There's an alpha and an omega. You dictate what happens during that time. Form is the backbone to the flow from alpha to omega in any composition and improvisation. (I recommend you start with the all-time classic ABABCAB and later on play around with its variations.) Harmonies/chords are the backbone to the music itself at any time during your whole solo break, section, or the entire track as your improvisation. (I recommend you start with some popular progressions, like the ones that involve I, IV, V or i, iv, v.) Dynamics, rhythmic timing, and melody will define your attitude, your personal touch to improvising.

    2) Music theory is important (you should know this by now), and I'm not afraid to be wrong if it isn't because it is. After you've learned a good deal of chords, you should learn the different kinds of scales/modes, primarily major/Ionian, minor/Aeolian, and the other five classical/jazz modes. Others, like Gregorian modes, the Byzantine scale, or the ones used in jazz (e.g., whole-tone, altered, symmetrical diminished, etc.) are a great bonus, but just a bonus. You will have to figure out how to use those scales and modes in certain harmonic contexts. I would have to say that a tutor will be a great help for you to figure out how to use scales. What scale or mode to use when you made a chord substitution is another story. Learn the role of each scale degree and how you can weave out melodies. There are a few interesting YouTube videos featuring Larry Carlton giving some insight into how to be able to improvise (including weaving out motifs and finding the roots, the fifths, etc. of a chord on the fretboard.) Of course, arpeggios will be on the way. 

    3) Specialized  training - training to play guitar : Learn the different chord shapes (CAGED system) and chord qualities (maj, min, sus2, sus4, etc.). You put the two together and you will be able to play a great number of open/floating chords/harmonic possibilities, ... 'cause that's how it works on a guitar in (standard) tuning.

I highly recommend that you cover (2) and (3) in the same time interval because it's the only way they can work - together.

    4) Practice phrasing. Noodling is easy, but improvising true melodies that say something is a skill to be mastered. Learn call-and-response and how to link phrases together. Personally, I got stuck at guitar phrasing on spot. I can do it vocally, but I can't do it on the instrument.

    5) Look for different exercises for scale fingering, speed-licking, weaving arpeggios, etc. Practice, practice, practice. Learn other people's compositions and solos because you can use their phrases like words in your sentences and alter them at will.

    6) Learn about different musical styles and their history, how they evolved, who were the key figures and what they did for those styles, etc. Not sure if the world is looking for the next Michael Karoli, but I reckoned that's what you are aiming for.

You are looking at what may seem at first like a daunting, tall order. But discipline is key. 

I've probably missed something, but as Ry Cooder said, you never stop learning.

==============================================================

I'm going to post a link to this reply in my improv thread where you might  learn something.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 25 2016 at 11:50
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DDPascalDD View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 13:31
Thank you so much for taking your time!
What I mostly want to do is melodic rock. Sorry for the cliche but Mr. Gilmour is my absolute favourite and influence. Though I don't want to be exactly the same, I'm not going to reach the same skill and being a copy isn't fun, but he's a big example for me. 
Therefore, I think point 4) is most important for me, but I'll definitely go through them all.

I got one question though: is it more useful to know a lot about chords or about scales? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 13:49
They are as intimately linked as bangers and mash. Best to have both at the same time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 13:51
Well.... that is answered in Dayvenkirq's post (point #2), including my first reaction to your last question: get a tutor to help you out. You don't need to go to a tutor for ever, but it's how I learned playing guitar and bass properly (after 10 years of piano lessons). Go to a tutor once a week for say 3-4 months, and then schedule shorter sequences of 3-5 lessons every once in a while. With your basis that should work out fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 14:14
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

Sorry for the cliche but Mr. Gilmour is my absolute favourite and influence.
And I thought Pete Townshend was a cliche choice.

Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

What I mostly want to do is melodic rock. Sorry for the cliche but Mr. Gilmour is my absolute favourite and influence. Though I don't want to be exactly the same, I'm not going to reach the same skill and being a copy isn't fun, but he's a big example for me.
Pick the qualities you love the most about his style: how sparse or dense his parts are, how he handles his dynamic range, etc. Dave has a background in blues music, started off as an OK psych guitarist skill-wise, but in a matter of several years blossomed into a bit more proficient, more melodic player. He was taking advantage of slides, bends, and blues and whole-tone scales and developed his own sense of rhythm.

Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

Therefore, I think point 4) is most important for me, but I'll definitely go through them all.
From a purely technical perspective: 
In that case I highly recommend you to find a really good tutor, but one that suits your needs, your learning curve, whether your learning style is visual or kinesthetic. Learn some bits and pieces written by other people or come up with some boring or interesting bits of your own.

From a purely intimate, more human perspective: That's a tough one for me, I'm not gonna lie. I can recall only one truly good melody I came up, and I wrote that one. All the great melodies I've heard are all slow/mid-tempo, simple and elegant. They depend heavily on the sound of the instrument and the player's technique/methods of playing a note or going from one note to the next. They do not rely on speed. But that's just my perspective, and it's coming from someone who was a Floyd fan. It's almost like magic. With that being said, pulling a magic trick on spot shouldn't be impossible if you listen to your instrument and figure out what chords/notes/harmonics/techniques sound best on it.

Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

I got one question though: is it more useful to know a lot about chords or about scales?
The way I see it: they are like two hemispheres of one brain - inseparable.

 - Let's say you focus solely on chords. How are you going to make melodies now? Using boring arpeggios?
 - Let's say you focus solely on scales. How are you going to develop a sense of harmony? Do you have a band that's going to back you up with a beat and a root/slash note or a groove? Can you make sure your notes won't sound out of place?

A good solo is like a piece of jewelry: the chords are the chain, but the notes are the gems. 

Also, if you can see a scale in its boxed, ascending, or descending form, you can see its corresponding chord in a corresponding shape. If you can see a chord, you can figure out a scale. Scale -> chord. Chord -> scale. Kapish? (One or two people on this forum would probably argue this point, but I'm willing to hear them out.)

If you must insist on me making my choice between the two, then I say: you have to figure it out on your own. If you like to harmonize a lot (which doesn't sound like you, because you want to focus on soloing), learn more about the chords. If you want some sweet, fancy intonations, learn more about the scales. That's why I like using the whole-tone and altered scales on top of V when resolving. But only you can figure out a way to express your true musical self.




Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 02 2016 at 14:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 14:20
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

I have some thoughts on that. Give me an hour.
Basically this for me, but it might be a little later than that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 14:26
1. Turn in your guitar and buy a turntable
2. Turn in your turntable and buy a guitar



But seriously, if you have the money find a good teacher in your area.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 15:24
@Dayvenqirk: What I like most about Gilmour is that his solo's can stand on their own, solely melody is enough to enjoy and analyse. Most clearly on Shine On (first solo). 
Though sometimes I think something I'm never sure of: for such (not too fast and) melodic solos, it's more the musical feeling than the technique/experience of playing.

In general: I'm not sure I'm able to go to a tutor. I just don't want to quit piano lessons and those two at the same time won't work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 16:20
Yes a good teacher can be important and all the other suggestions are fine.   But the single best way to improve on an instrument ~ especially a rock- or jazz-oriented one like guitar, bass or drums ~ is to play with others of a similar level.  

Join or form a band.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 16:23
Nothing will replace human interaction when it comes to learning, huh? ... I wish I knew that in advance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 16:26
^That's a very good one actually. Now that you say it I see oppurtinities to play a lot with others! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 16:32
^ There you go. You are 15. Take advantage of the fact that you've got a lot of time ahead of you, but don't procrastinate. Get in touch with any of the local guitar or keyboard/piano players, someone who is friendly and willing to share, preferably someone who is into the same kind of music that you want to take on when learning to improvise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 22:34
Alright. Some tips.

1. Write parts you have trouble playing and play them with a click track or metronome. If you have trouble with them, play them slow. 

2. Come up with parts based on novel ideas that are idiomatic to the guitar. For instance, melodies using only harmonics. Not that that hasn't been done, but things like that help you think outside the box.

3. Stretch your improvising skills by putting some kind of limit on yourself. I did this subconsciously by starting on non-chord-tones and using as many I could just because I liked the sound. Think about limits you can place on yourself and come up with ideas in those limits.

4. Learn to play and sing at the same time. Being able to contextualize melodies with what you're playing on guitar can help your melodic ear.

5. Buy a loop station or find some way to do the following: Write a chord progression. Record and loop it. Play over it ad nauseam. Find licks you like over it. 

6. Remember that music is sound. As much as noodling and practicing unplugged by yourself helps. It helps to practice with an amp and also with other people. One thing about improvisation is that, in a band setting, it's very much about feeding off of people's ideas. If the drummer plays a triplet fill, you can play a triplet lick, or interact with it some other way. You can harmonize with the bassline. You can create crazy noises to match the energy of what the other band members are doing. 

7. Transcription. Transcribe solos, riffs, melodies, chord progressions from anything of any genre, even if it's not on guitar or guitar isn't even present in the recording. Film scores, jazz, classical, pop songs, whatever catches your ear. 

The main thing that made improvement very natural for me was that playing guitar was almost synonymous with writing songs from the outset. Before I learned any songs, I learned a few chords and arranged a chord progression out of them. I transcribed several different things (and developed good ears thereby) because I wanted to write songs with that mood or emotional resonance. I learned a good bit of theory along the way, so I knew many scale/mode names and the theory behind them, but I didn't practice scales as much as people might think because I listened to a good deal of music that was modal or in strange scales and wrote stuff based on the sound of those songs myself such that I eventually got a feel for how they laid on guitar and how to use the anyway. I wrote parts that were technically hard for me to play and improved my technique that way. I got into avant-garde music and wrote plenty of that and came back to tonal music with increased versatility. I listened to a lot of music (still do) and imitated things I heard.

But the experience I did have with one particular teacher was invaluable. My final tip: If you go looking for a teacher, look for a good jazz teacher. They'll usually have more tricks up their sleeve in terms of improvisation and soloing than a rock or classical one. (Just don't imitate their tendency to turn the tone knob all the way down Tongue).


Edited by Polymorphia - January 02 2016 at 22:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2016 at 22:40
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

You are 15.
Holy sh*t someone younger than me.
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