Modern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266

Posted: September 30 2015 at 23:45

Semantics, gentlemen. It's all semantics.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: September 30 2015 at 23:39

Svetonio wrote:

Why Tommy is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy, said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")

What?

Overture

Underture

Amazing Journey

1921

Welcome

We're not Gonna Take it

Are Prog tracks.

The fact that Tommy is not a full Prog Opera is because in 1968 PROG HAD'T DEVELOPED COMPLETELY.

This has no relation with the vocals

Svetonio wrote:

I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why?

It's more than obvious you're not a music teacher.

The manner of singing is a matter of personal characteristics and vocal range, if the music fits into the Prog genre, you can put Axl Rise to sing and will still be Prog.

Svetonio wrote:

Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock.

What?

David Byron's Uriah Heep

Greg Lake's ELP

Peter Gabriel's Genesis

Steve Walsh's Kansas

David Surkamp's Pavlov's Dog

John Wetton's King Crimson

Fish's Marillion

Francesco di Giacomo's Banco del Mutuo Soccorso

PFM

Le Orme

Are bands in which vocals and lyrics are as important as any instrument.

And could mention 100 more

Have you ever heard Jesús de la Rosa from Triana?

The music is pure Prog and he was a damned cante Hondo singer.

Have you ever heard Jose Cid?

Sings like a frustrated hard rock vocalist, but 10,000 Anos Depois Entre Venus e Marte is 100% Prog

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 30 2015 at 23:45

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: September 30 2015 at 22:35

chopper wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

chopper wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;

Nope, still not getting it.

Ah, it had to be so pathetically predictable that the Talk Talk's fans who are pushing their fav band / one of top fav bands into Prog and rape our beloved genre with that action, will "still not getting it", although it's evidently that Talk Talk, even with their 80s art-rock effort titled Spirit of Eden, has nothing to do with Prog.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". (...)

Why Tommy is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy, said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why? Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock.

Edited by Svetonio - September 30 2015 at 22:53

sublime220 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 21 2015
Location: Willow Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1563

Posted: September 30 2015 at 19:14

t d wombat wrote:

Do I think either of these albums are the epitome of Prog ? Course not, but that is just the way the poll worked out. Big deal. Me I didn't know either of these two before this and now own them both so hey, I'm happy.

Exactly what this poll was supposed to be about. Not all this bullsh*t about some albums not being prog (Svetonio, I'm looking at you) or thinking that some Moroccan band that you like deserves to be in the final.

There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...

t d wombat View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 14 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 504

Posted: September 30 2015 at 18:09

Do I think either of these albums are the epitome of Prog ? Course not, but that is just the way the poll worked out. Big deal. Me I didn't know either of these two before this and now own them both so hey, I'm happy.

Andrew B

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx

dr wu23

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623

Posted: September 30 2015 at 16:42

Hmmm....imho neither album deserves to be in a final for best modern prog album......but then I mostly listen to old retro classic stuff anyway....and bands that have a similar style. So there it is.

One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin

GentleGiant View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 09 2006
Location: PantagrueLand
Status: Offline
Points: 445

Posted: September 30 2015 at 13:09

One more vote for Hybris (stupid poll) Ouch

BeGiantForADay

"This British band is just the cup of tea for aficionados who demand virtuosity,progress and originality in their mix."

http://rateyourmusic.com/~GentleG

chopper

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030

Posted: September 30 2015 at 11:02

Svetonio wrote:

chopper wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;

Nope, still not getting it.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". I was actually interested in what you saw as the difference between the two, but if you're just going to be rude then I won't bother to ask again.

It's nothing to do "raping our beloved genre" (What a ridiculous comment!). Regardless of what you think, Talk Talk are on PA under Crossover so deal with it.

sublime220 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 21 2015
Location: Willow Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1563

Posted: September 30 2015 at 10:21

Excellent comparison of Kind Of Blue Clap

There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: September 30 2015 at 09:38

For God's sake, it's a damn poll.

I don't believe Talk Talk is Prog...But what the hell.

If Talk Talk wins....Hybris will continue being as good as it is, the poll won't change a bit the nature of the album.

"A Kind of Blue" was in the top albums of the site and it's not remotely Prog, but that ranking didn't changed the natiure of the album.

Let it be Svetonio.

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: September 30 2015 at 07:11

octopus-4 wrote:

(...)

Then, can we call "modern" a band "formed in 1981"? LOL

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: September 30 2015 at 06:55

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm so glad the unofficial prog police are here to make sure all non-prog is identified. All hail true prog.

Actually, I'm very sad and disapointed because the poster didn't put in his polls of "moderns" that Belgrade's punk /new wave band Šarlo Akrobata (already in PA' RIO/Avant section!!!) because they were also modern during that punk / new wave histeria back in the day. Why Yugo - New Wave band that to be neglected regarding "moderns"?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyTSq84FpM0

As a said earlier, some people had no idea about Prog Rock at the time when they came to these pages.

Edited by Svetonio - September 30 2015 at 07:08

octopus-4

Special Collaborator

RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122

Posted: September 30 2015 at 06:29

I want to clarify that I'm quite ignorant about Talk Talk except for their 80s pop hits (which I didn't like).

They may have converted into a prog band at some time, but I have seen also Japan being added some time ago. Apart of the presence of some David Sylvian I honestly don't see how they can be considered progressive.

It's my personal opinion of course. I don't pretend to own the truth about progginess.

Anyway if I think to modern albums, without going for RIO or Zeuhl, I think to Ayreon's The Human Equation, Spock's Beard "Snow". Mostly Autumn's "The Last Bright Light", Riverside's "Second Life Syndrome", Iamthemorning's first album, just to mention the first which come to my mind.

Then, can we call "modern" a band "formed in 1981"? LOL

I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down

Forum & Site Admin Group

RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 20850

Posted: September 30 2015 at 05:57

I'm so glad the unofficial prog police are here to make sure all non-prog is identified. All hail true prog.

Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/

Mascodagama View Drop Down

Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5111

Posted: September 30 2015 at 03:44

"rape our beloved genre"

I think you should call the Prog Police, Svet. Thirty-seven genre rapists on this site is a serious matter.

p.s. Talk Talk fans, please remember that no means no.

SaltyJon

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 08 2008
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 28772

Posted: September 30 2015 at 03:30

Talk Talk wins my vote without even lifting its fairly vocal pinky.

TeleStrat

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319

Posted: September 30 2015 at 02:02

Hybris for me

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: September 30 2015 at 00:26

Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ OK, Svet, we get it: you hate Talk Talk and Spirit Of Eden. Let it go.

It's not true that I hate Spirit of Eden. In fact, I wrote at the 1st page on this thread, in my reply to octopus-4, that Spirit of Eden is a great 80s art rock album:

octopus-4 wrote:

Is Talk Talk prog?

Svetonio wrote:

Of course not. Spirit of Eden is a great album of 80s Art Rock (70s Art Rock had not contain that ambiental element). Actually, this is a "prog vs art rock" (i.e. "progressive rock album vs non progressive rock album") poll.

I just said the truth that Spirit of Eden is not Prog Rock and, as you can see, I explained the true nature of this poll (prog album vs non prog album).

Well, I know that the truth can be pretty painful and at least I hope that there is a consensus about that the Talk Talk's sh*t synth pop hits aren't Prog - or maybe they are also Prog for Talk Talk fanatics?

Dayvenkirq View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970

Posted: September 29 2015 at 23:46

^ OK, Svet, we get it: you hate Talk Talk and Spirit Of Eden. Let it go.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - September 29 2015 at 23:49

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: September 29 2015 at 23:40

chopper wrote:

Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;

Nope, still not getting it.

Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Hybris (1992) - Anglagard	41	[44.57%]
Spirit of Eden (1988) - Talk Talk	51	[55.43%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted