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Saperlipopette! 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Points: 11666
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 Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:36 |
 Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.
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"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary.
I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:48 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.
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"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary.
I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence. |
So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.
As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here.
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What?
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:51 |
Dean wrote:
So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.
As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here. |
Yes of course! Who else could rate the album too highly than "people"?
But we're done. Fine by me.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
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Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:52 |
I don't think overrated means "albums I don't like." I think it means "albums that mystify me because I don't understand why the majority of people think they are brilliant when I just think they are good, or even great." I'm not condemning either DSOTM or the people who think it's a fantastic album. I'm just saying, I like it, but have never quite managed to see what all the fuss is about. I find WYWH to be a much more interesting and emotionally satisfying album.
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emigre80
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Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
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Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:53 |
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I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13352
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:38 |
SteveG wrote:
No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO. |
An that makes two of us.
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:59 |
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them.
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That's exactly what I meant. Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) in the PA album list? - is the question
Edited by DDPascalDD - September 12 2015 at 08:59
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:41 |
emigre80 wrote:
I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated. |
Agreed
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:52 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. |
That's exactly what I meant. Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) in the PA album list? - is the question
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Apparently we shouldn't have opinions about these things. If we do, we are arrogant. The only morally correct way to respond to your question is disgust.
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emigre80
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Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:14 |
^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner? For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:19 |
emigre80 wrote:
^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner? For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
But no one has done that. Not in here. Infact no one seem to dislike any of these albums so why would they?Some just feel one or two of them are generally a little OVERRATED and answers politely when someone asks.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
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Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:21 |
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It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:26 |
emigre80 wrote:
It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion. |
I understood that but your example wasn't fair as the labeling came from the ones who have a problem with the term overrated, not the ones taking part in the discussion. No one has ridiculed anyone's love for either album. Not even close.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:28 |
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I believe you introduced the word "disgust" into the conversation.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Points: 11666
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:36 |
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^Eh but did you not get the context? It was a parody of sorts of those who contribute with nothing but telling us that they have a problem with others thinking of an album as overrated. It had nothing whatsoever to do with your example.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
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Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:37 |
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Okay. I still like the raccoon.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13063
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:07 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I never vote for overrated polls
IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.
All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.
I like Foxtrot more, but this doesn't mean I consider the others overrated |
I don't see how albums that are highly rated over generations of listeners can be considered overrated. The albums in question have received continuous accolades for over 40 years. I would say, rather, that albums like Steven Wilson's The Raven Who Refused To Sing, which folks have massive erections over currently, most likely will not stand the test of time, and in comparison to the albums listed are more likely to fade from public interest in a relatively short time (relative, in prog music, meaning years as opposed to decades). Good albums, but not on par with acknowledged classics.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:30 |
emigre80 wrote:
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim.
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What?
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:33 |
I don't like KC's debut so i voted that.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:48 |
Dean wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. |
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated." I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved." Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated. I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device). Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths. So this thread has been useful for me, because that's a question that's been bothering me for a long time.
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Most overrated album No. 1
