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Bigseal View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 06:43
From what I remember prog only became prog later on, it was originally pop music. Artists like Pink Floyd were on Top of The Pops. Prog has always evolved naturally, but metal came later out of heavy rock. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:04
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

People who don't like evil music are delusional floating in clouds, the wisp of the tree and the chirrup of the finch. Life is not fairytale, only death is real, if you're deaf to death you're deaf to life.

Toaster, even death isn't real.

Reality only probably exists at the sub dimensional level suggested by M Theory, which involves two dimensional "brane" structures which interconnect the supposed 11 dimensions of spacetime.

Everything else is just fairy stories. ;-)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:05
Heavy metal. 

If I want to see a bunch of grown men with long hair and overtight trousers being all dramatic, I'll go off and watch a pantomime.  At least that's all taken with a pinch of salt.

Slap of my thigh. 


Edited by Davesax1965 - March 25 2015 at 08:06

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:51
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:



If I want to see a bunch of grown men with long hair and overtight trousers being all dramatic


Sounds like a description of prog rock to me.  Except maybe capes instead of aforementioned trousers.


Edited by Padraic - March 25 2015 at 08:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:51
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Because "metal" is product which can be shifted to the gullible, whilst "prog" involves much more listener input. 

Heavy Metal is sh*te. No other word for it. 


There are a lot of metalheads that enjoy listening to a lot of prog so... Plus as someone stated, there is metal that is quite complex.

I don't know what metal you've heard but sh*t it is not; I dislike some of metal's subgenres (but then again I dislike some prog ones as well) but calling it like you've just done is just unfair. Saying something like "I dislike it" would be one thing, calling it "sh*te" is another.

Of all the people I know that listen to some metal, none of them is gulible. LOL



Edited by Cristi - March 25 2015 at 09:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:57
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

So, in a nutshell:
Metal = sh*t crapped by Satanic mass media owners and distributed to children and retards with no musical education and some hearing difficulties.



"Satanic mass media owners" - ROFLMAO.

hope you're trolling, if not, you're (kinda) ridiculous.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 10:35
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

People who don't like evil music are delusional floating in clouds, the wisp of the tree and the chirrup of the finch. Life is not fairytale, only death is real, if you're deaf to death you're deaf to life.

That is a false correlation.  Perfectly normal and realistic people quite capable of taking a glass half-empty view of things may dislike horror movies (and likewise evil music) not so much for what they express but for the aesthetics.  On that note, much of the conversation on music, or even other art forms for that matter, seems to center only on the raw emotion, that is whether it is a happy or sad piece of music.  Aesthetics also forms an important part of the reason why people like or dislike a given work of art.  It is also part of what makes art appreciation so subjective because different people react to the aesthetic side of art differently.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 10:38
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Because "metal" is product which can be shifted to the gullible, whilst "prog" involves much more listener input. 

Heavy Metal is sh*te. No other word for it. 


There are a lot of metalheads that enjoy listening to a lot of prog so... Plus as someone stated, there is metal that is quite complex.

I don't know what metal you've heard but sh*t it is not; I dislike some of metal's subgenres (but then again I dislike some prog ones as well) but calling it like you've just done is just unfair. Saying something like "I dislike it" would be one thing, calling it "sh*te" is another.

Of all the people I know that listen to some metal, none of them is gulible. LOL



Seconded.  Davesax1965 just regurgitates common prejudices against metal.  I doubt that he ever took the time to listen to a good assortment of metal albums.  Sure, some kinds of metal are as ugly as an oil spill and full of questionable ideology, but there is plenty of metal that is pretty deep and complex.  "Progressive metal" is far from an oxymoron, and many people are into both prog and metal.

... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 10:42
I'm a card-carrying progger, but I find some distinct pleasure in watching That Metal Show when I can catch it. There's some bit of fascination I have for metal, probably because of its base elements (those that the masses identify with). With that said, apart from a few of the classics, I wouldn't drop a dime on any of it. Hell, I'm having trouble affording purchases of my beloved passion - PROG!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:59
It's possible that Ronnie James Dio read books on demonology or witchcraft and it's obvious that he was more creative dipping into the subject matter with his lyrics. Ritchie Blackmore may have similar interests, but the point is they were both doing something more creative and sincere..if anything. Eric Bloom from B.O.C. once said that in the beginning of their career, record executives gave them books on witchcraft and science fiction to study. Eric Bloom made it clear that the band received orders to study the books and write around the subjects. Ironically, in this particular case, the band produced some fine concept albums relating to the underworld and gaining a decent fan base in the end. This is an exceptional case because many Metal bands were just writing something dark to get attention and not exactly interested in the subjects they were singing about short of doing what they were told to do by the record companies.

Obviously the difference between the popularity of Metal and Prog was based on the fascination people had with the occult and how they could apply an image to their own lives by dressing the part, (usually in black), and wearing occult rings and pentagrams around their neck. As a point of interest, this activity displayed the surface fringe kind of cheapness within the occult and was commercially designed to make money. On another note , several youths died in Satan cult killings and the press attributed their deaths to the lyricism of Metal. The deaths were serious and a problem when consulting Senator Gore's wife...however she placed the blame on the artist, but when the artists revealed that they would tow the line so they wouldn't lose their more than stable income, it was then revealed to her that the record companies had something to do with this. She forced them to use a restriction method with album stickers, but still blamed the artists for the material, when in fact the material was often contrived by the record executives. Point is...she would judge the Metal artists by putting them on the stand, while she sat rubbing shoulders with the record executives.



I played for audiences like these...for many years and touring, observing their behavior from a distance and sometimes, unfortunately...up close. Many kids were completely lost. They were lost because they weren't personally interested in the underworld, but played up to be by dressing in this certain code, listening to Metal and flaunting the underworld. Some of the young victims and murderers from cults committed suicide when incarcerated. The reason being that they were connected to a Satan worshipper's sect and a real sect does not tolerate whistle blowers if it involves a full scale police investigation. They were depressed on the inside and would be tracked down and killed on the outside. This was all connected to the influence of Metal music. A real sect does not want to make contact with a young teenager that worships the devil. It's very debatable, but there are cases where it has occurred , such as the young offspring of the family sect listens to Metal, and forms he/she's own Satan cult , someone gets murdered in a sloppy way, crap hits the fan, a journalist gets involved and then only God knows what the real story is right? But seriously, this has occurred in history and the kids will take their own lives before revealing the sect. If the sect is investigated and rare evidence is revealed, instead of hours of interrogation and de-programming methods to obtain evidence from witnesses or victims,  , leading the police to the suspicion of a certain sect,  the evidence never holds water in court and the detective on a mission is almost always presented as a person with half bent theories or accused and characterized of being a person on a mission to make themselves famous and not truly worthy of bringing justice to the world. 

Metal music , no doubt...inspired these events to a magnitude of global interest, but it's important to know that the same kid who destroyed himself after crowning himself with "Better By You, Better By Me" is the same kid who might put a gun to his head if he heard "Strawberry Fields Forever" because he/she is so delusional. This is how the Metal musicians defended themselves. This was part of their theory to prove that it's up to the individual as to how they will relate to a song. It's not the song written to be blamed, it's how you are written or made up as an individual that has to be blamed ..if that in fact is where it all stems from ..which would equal a person who has been deprived of music all of their life and still goes out and murders someone because they are psychotic. People who are wealthy and are members of a Satan worshippers sect find this entire series of tragic events to be laughable because their life is a secret and someone is making profit over revealing it. Most of the time they are not worried about justice when they make films for S.R.A. victims or runaway victims of the "Children Of God" for example. They sensationalize it so much ...that it seems to be farce and it has that air about it to the intelligent person who quickly doubts it's content on the journalistic aspect and the overall hyped up presentation of the subject alone. Cults do exist, Satan worshippers sects exist and I openly admit that I am a victim, but truly they are making Hollywood out of it.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 22:16
Prog is good. That's why you can't make an industry out of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 01:15
My hypothesis is that prog musicians were too clever and unpredictable for record labels to fool and control them in the long run. Thus after great prog moozik punk rock arise whereby unfortunately great bands and instrumentals went downhill, new punk bands were promoted heavily instead, kids the record labels could control as they only wanted to be rock stars meanwhile  they could even not play well their instruments Unhappy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 03:18
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

My hypothesis is that prog musicians were too clever and unpredictable for record labels to fool and control them in the long run. Thus after great prog moozik punk rock arise whereby unfortunately great bands and instrumentals went downhill, new punk bands were promoted heavily instead, kids the record labels could control as they only wanted to be rock stars meanwhile  they could even not play well their instruments Unhappy
Alas Sonia, Prog musicians were as gullible and naïve as any other musician when it came to business. Being clever had very little to do with it. Your view of Punk is not quite right either, but searching the forum for "Punk" will reveal lots threads where this is explained more accurately. Most of the Punk musicians were actually very good at playing their instruments, they just dumbed-it-down for the music press.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 03:29
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

My hypothesis is that prog musicians were too clever and unpredictable for record labels to fool and control them in the long run. Thus after great prog moozik punk rock arise whereby unfortunately great bands and instrumentals went downhill, new punk bands were promoted heavily instead, kids the record labels could control as they only wanted to be rock stars meanwhile  they could even not play well their instruments Unhappy
Alas Sonia, Prog musicians were as gullible and naïve as any other musician when it came to business. Being clever had very little to do with it. Your view of Punk is not quite right either, but searching the forum for "Punk" will reveal lots threads where this is explained more accurately. Most of the Punk musicians were actually very good at playing their instruments, they just dumbed-it-down for the music press.
Dean, so far this is my personal opinion however I am open minded and certainly have a lot to discover and learn I know, if you want please show me a punk band who actually played great instrumentals? Hug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 03:42
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean, so far this is my personal opinion however I am open minded and certainly have a lot to discover and learn I know, if you want please show me a punk band who actually played great instrumentals? Hug
Playing great instrumentals and being able to play great instrumentals are two different things. Discussing and/or Posting Punk in this thread is too far off topic even for a serial-meanderer such as I.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 03:51
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean, so far this is my personal opinion however I am open minded and certainly have a lot to discover and learn I know, if you want please show me a punk band who actually played great instrumentals? Hug
Playing great instrumentals and being able to play great instrumentals are two different things. Discussing and/or Posting Punk in this thread is too far off topic even for a serial-meanderer such as I.
I do not think it is of topic, I think it is relevant and within topic why prog died mainly due to bad publicity and obviously the music industry companies. It's our perception of what happened or not in discussion you silly billy SmileHug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 04:15
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I do not think it is of topic, I think it is relevant and within topic why prog died mainly due to bad publicity and obviously the music industry companies. It's our perception of what happened or not in discussion you silly billy SmileHug
While I've only skimmed some of the posts in this thread, I have read (and understood) the OP - this thread is not about why prog died. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 04:27
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I do not think it is of topic, I think it is relevant and within topic why prog died mainly due to bad publicity and obviously the music industry companies. It's our perception of what happened or not in discussion you silly billy SmileHug
While I've only skimmed some of the posts in this thread, I have read (and understood) the OP - this thread is not about why prog died. Wink
You silly sod, unless I am mistaken this thread is about why prog has not continuously flourished (as in popular demand) compared to Metal Wink
hug! Hug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 04:32
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

People who don't like evil music are delusional floating in clouds, the wisp of the tree and the chirrup of the finch. Life is not fairytale, only death is real, if you're deaf to death you're deaf to life.

That is a false correlation.  Perfectly normal and realistic people quite capable of taking a glass half-empty view of things may dislike horror movies (and likewise evil music) not so much for what they express but for the aesthetics.  On that note, much of the conversation on music, or even other art forms for that matter, seems to center only on the raw emotion, that is whether it is a happy or sad piece of music.  Aesthetics also forms an important part of the reason why people like or dislike a given work of art.  It is also part of what makes art appreciation so subjective because different people react to the aesthetic side of art differently.  


"The passion caused by the great and sublime in nature . . . is Astonishment; and astonishment is that state of the soul, in which all its motions are suspended, with some degree of horror." - Edmund Burke

"Except in struggle, there is no more beauty. No work without an aggressive character can be a masterpiece. Poetry must be conceived as a violent attack on unknown forces, to reduce and prostrate them before man." - F. T. Marinetti

"True beauty is something that attacks, overpowers, robs, and finally destroys." - Yukio Mishima

"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 04:56
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

People who don't like evil music are delusional floating in clouds, the wisp of the tree and the chirrup of the finch. Life is not fairytale, only death is real, if you're deaf to death you're deaf to life.

That is a false correlation.  Perfectly normal and realistic people quite capable of taking a glass half-empty view of things may dislike horror movies (and likewise evil music) not so much for what they express but for the aesthetics.  On that note, much of the conversation on music, or even other art forms for that matter, seems to center only on the raw emotion, that is whether it is a happy or sad piece of music.  Aesthetics also forms an important part of the reason why people like or dislike a given work of art.  It is also part of what makes art appreciation so subjective because different people react to the aesthetic side of art differently.  


"The passion caused by the great and sublime in nature . . . is Astonishment; and astonishment is that state of the soul, in which all its motions are suspended, with some degree of horror." - Edmund Burke

"Except in struggle, there is no more beauty. No work without an aggressive character can be a masterpiece. Poetry must be conceived as a violent attack on unknown forces, to reduce and prostrate them before man." - F. T. Marinetti

"True beauty is something that attacks, overpowers, robs, and finally destroys." - Yukio Mishima

Toaster Mantis Smile hello!
I disagree with you here, why would one place him or herself between nasty or evil people? To me I cannot comprehend. I stay away from all negativity (this only drags you down) and instead focus on the positive. I am not naïve, I know that not everyone is nice HOWEVER I still believe most people are actually really nice and sweet too. You are sweet too very sweet behind that bravado and even without the bravado too you showed many times how nice you are, Toaster Mantis Wink. Hug to you Hug
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