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Kati 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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 Posted: January 29 2015 at 21:08 |
 The Dark Elf wrote:
There was once a band called The Beatles. Pick a song, any damn song.
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That's a great reply, The Dark Elf. Brilliant one  I must add tho' that pop in those days was very different compared to our current situation. Big hug to you 
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28059
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Posted: January 30 2015 at 01:20 |
The Sloth wrote:
I don't care much for modern prog because it's usually either metal based, or retro. Tool is the only band that has seamlessly carried the full spirit into (somewhat) modern times. The inherent blandness and static force of metal, musicianship before melody, ego before atmosphere...these things break up the mental picture that all great prog creates. |
The Mars Volta have and more so imo but yes the spirit of prog is in bed and having a long lie in that said I enjoy a lot of retro prog. I don't mind this term and if people want to dismiss it then that is their choice. The important thing is to be honest and I don't believe the retro bands make any great claims for originality. Its there if you want it. I want it.
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 16:09 |
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The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol
Edited by dr prog - January 31 2015 at 16:10
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13063
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 16:32 |
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
My, how narrow of you. Have you ever heard the song "Ballad of a Thin Man"?
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8642
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 16:39 |
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Not pop? The Beatles rarely dispatched with the pop elements, no matter what other influences they were working with. And as such almost all of their songs are standards on classic pop stations.
And a world-wise proghead would know that in the '70's some of the pop forms of the time fitted with prog quite nicely. Supertramp, natch.
Edited by Lear'sFool - January 31 2015 at 16:39
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 18:05 |
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Hello. Goodbye. 
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 19:18 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
My, how narrow of you. Have you ever heard the song "Ballad of a Thin Man"? |
So you want me to like songs that don't do much for me compositionally? How narrow of me lol I don't get how people say pop is catchy. Catchy for simple people
Edited by dr prog - January 31 2015 at 19:19
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 19:38 |
dr prog wrote:
I don't get how people say pop is catchy. Catchy for simple people |
Me too. I hate memorable tunes. I much prefer something that I can't remember a note of even after 30 listens. Were you evicted from an octopus's garden and now live in a round glass bowl perchance? 
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 19:44 |
PROG is memorable pop is not.
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 20:47 |
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:26 |
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Most rock in the early 70s was prog related. So popular rock back then was good but still not as good as main proggers. But I don't like when bands who are too prog either. A good balance of melodic music which doesn't try to be too complex or experimental
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:30 |
dr prog wrote:
Most rock in the early 70s was prog related. So popular rock back then was good but still not as good as main proggers. But I don't like when bands who are too prog either. A good balance of melodic music which doesn't try to be too complex or experimental |
"Too prog?" Haha- you mean like trying too hard? That is an issue as there are plenty of bands that are complex/w**ky/time sig changy as a gimmick without merit (lol djent) but there are groups that understand melody very well and layer very complex moments perfectly. There are distinct melodies that are beautiful but the counterpoint works. I've heard music that at first sounded "too complex" until I broke it apart mentally and found that level of understanding inside of it.
Try Aranis or Present. Or Zamla Mammaz Manna. Or the Tea Club.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:46 |
Smurph wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Most rock in the early 70s was prog related. So popular rock back then was good but still not as good as main proggers. But I don't like when bands who are too prog either. A good balance of melodic music which doesn't try to be too complex or experimental |
"Too prog?" Haha- you mean like trying too hard? That is an issue as there are plenty of bands that are complex/w**ky/time sig changy as a gimmick without merit (lol djent) but there are groups that understand melody very well and layer very complex moments perfectly. There are distinct melodies that are beautiful but the counterpoint works. I've heard music that at first sounded "too complex" until I broke it apart mentally and found that level of understanding inside of it.
Try Aranis or Present. Or Zamla Mammaz Manna. Or the Tea Club.
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I think that many of melodic prog bands from the ancient times that if they are playing in the same way now that they would not pass for PA today, not even in Crossover prog section. No one time some of my suggestions have been rejected as "too melodic".
Edited by Svetonio - January 31 2015 at 23:05
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:52 |
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop. |
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single has the chemical ingredients of pop, but it's early prog at its best.
Edited by Svetonio - February 01 2015 at 00:04
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:54 |
Svetonio wrote:
I think that many of melodic prog bands from the ancient times would not pass for PA today, not even in Crossover prog section. No one time some of my suggestions have been rejected as "too melodic". |
I learned quickly here to just let it slide if something doesn't pass though. The collaborators work hard trying to figure something out and there's such an influx of music coming in that they have to try and draw more lines. I get what you're saying but I also understand their perspective.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: January 31 2015 at 22:58 |
Smurph wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
I think that many of melodic prog bands from the ancient times would not pass for PA today, not even in Crossover prog section. No one time some of my suggestions have been rejected as "too melodic". |
I learned quickly here to just let it slide if something doesn't pass though. The collaborators work hard trying to figure something out and there's such an influx of music coming in that they have to try and draw more lines. I get what you're saying but I also understand their perspective. |
Observations "what is prog" changes over time, and also with each new set of PA' Teams members, and it's perfectly normal; or do you think that "if X then Y" THE argument(s) is unofficially banned in discussions just for fun?
Edited by Svetonio - February 01 2015 at 00:18
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: February 01 2015 at 00:07 |
Svetonio wrote:
Smurph wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Most rock in the early 70s was prog related. So popular rock back then was good but still not as good as main proggers. But I don't like when bands who are too prog either. A good balance of melodic music which doesn't try to be too complex or experimental |
"Too prog?" Haha- you mean like trying too hard? That is an issue as there are plenty of bands that are complex/w**ky/time sig changy as a gimmick without merit (lol djent) but there are groups that understand melody very well and layer very complex moments perfectly. There are distinct melodies that are beautiful but the counterpoint works. I've heard music that at first sounded "too complex" until I broke it apart mentally and found that level of understanding inside of it.
Try Aranis or Present. Or Zamla Mammaz Manna. Or the Tea Club.
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I think that many of melodic prog bands from the ancient times that if they are playing in the same way now that they would not pass for PA today, not even in Crossover prog section. No one time some of my suggestions have been rejected as "too melodic".
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Those bands were the definition of prog. How could they not make the archives now? The definition of prog never changed. It always progressed through melody. It was never about being different or inventing. Those bands just happened to do it. Modern bands think it's about being different or inventing. They took it literally but none of them can really write a melody and produce something which lasts 
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: February 01 2015 at 00:14 |
dr prog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Smurph wrote:
dr prog wrote:
Most rock in the early 70s was prog related. So popular rock back then was good but still not as good as main proggers. But I don't like when bands who are too prog either. A good balance of melodic music which doesn't try to be too complex or experimental |
"Too prog?" Haha- you mean like trying too hard? That is an issue as there are plenty of bands that are complex/w**ky/time sig changy as a gimmick without merit (lol djent) but there are groups that understand melody very well and layer very complex moments perfectly. There are distinct melodies that are beautiful but the counterpoint works. I've heard music that at first sounded "too complex" until I broke it apart mentally and found that level of understanding inside of it.
Try Aranis or Present. Or Zamla Mammaz Manna. Or the Tea Club.
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I think that many of melodic prog bands from the ancient times that if they are playing in the same way now that they would not pass for PA today, not even in Crossover prog section. No one time some of my suggestions have been rejected as "too melodic".
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Those bands were the definition of prog. How could they not make the archives now? The definition of prog never changed. It always progressed through melody. It was never about being different or inventing. Those bands just happened to do it. Modern bands think it's about being different or inventing. They took it literally but none of them can really write a melody and produce something which lasts |
There's no such a thing as "definition of prog". However, observations "what is prog" changes over times and it is the fact. I mean, if you told to somebody back in 70s that some stuff is not prog 'cause it's "too melodic", it would have been ridiculed.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 01 2015 at 00:46 |
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop. |
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single has the chemical ingredients of pop, but it's early prog at its best.
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You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2502
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Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol |
Prog related does not make it NOT pop. Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop. |
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">has the</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">chemical</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">ingredients of</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">pop</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">,</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">but</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">it's early</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">prog at its best</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">.</span>
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You have it backwards, I am afraid. It's pop at it best with elements of prog. You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions. Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog. And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion. |
Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know 
Edited by dr prog - February 01 2015 at 01:07
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Why old prog - for me - is better than new prog