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Topic ClosedWhy old prog - for me - is better than new prog

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 05:40
^ what band are talking about? just curious
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 05:48
out of the respect to the genre teams.. it isn't an easy job.. we'll leave that one alone. Smile We all have our opinions on additions or lack thereof. The point is ... some modern bands get added.. some don't...  old prog fan either likes or not... but it doesn't seem to hurt them as it isn't old prog fan (thankfully for their survival) that they care about. It is the young eclectic listners who just want good adventurous music and without the bullsh*t of tags and labels


It is new world out there


Edited by micky - January 27 2015 at 05:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 05:52
^ ahaaa, I meant no offense, I was curious if I knew the band or if I don't I would look it up, try to listen, that's all.

As for genre classifications, I don't care that much, I've always got in "trouble" talking about that. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 05:56
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ ahaaa, I meant no offense, I was curious if I knew the band or if I don't I would look it up, try to listen, that's all.

As for genre classifications, I don't care that much, I've always got in "trouble" talking about that. LOL


none taken.. I was trying to make a larger point and don't want a specific case to be seen as criticism of others.. ie. those that rejected it.

Check out Raff's review of Progday... she mentions the group and all of them that played in her review. Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:11
haven't heard of any of those bands, I'm clueless
I give up LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:15
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

haven't heard of any of those bands, I'm clueless
I give up LOL


hahaha.  welcome to the modern scene!

SO many bands.. so much great music. So many discoveries to be made today if one makes the times and has the energy to find them.

Check out that band Backhand... next to ..ahem.. Galactic Cowboy OrchestraWink ..it was my favorite band of the weekend.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:23
ok, thanks!

It's not that I don't look for new music to listen to, but I still discover bands from the 70s (prog and non-prog), which is great. I haven't listened to any new prog bands lately but I will try to listen to the two bands you've just mentioned.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:35
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

ok, thanks!

It's not that I don't look for new music to listen to, but I still discover bands from the 70s (prog and non-prog), which is great. I haven't listened to any new prog bands lately but I will try to listen to the two bands you've just mentioned.


cool... now those were my favorites from Progday. Not necessarily the best out there perhaps and perhaps not best heard on youtube or mp3 but live.. live on stage is where good bands can sound great!

Not sure what your particular tastes are but check out these favs of mine.

2014 album of the year
UT Gret - Ancestors Tale

runner up
Moraine - Groundswell

micky discovery of 2014
Alec K Redfearn and the Eyesores.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:47
^ I'm definitely gonna look for Moraine and Backhand (I skimmed through a few songs on youtube).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 06:55
I DO listen to new prog (within my budget capabilities and taste limitations), I support modern bands making progressive music, I have no big issue with bands using modern technology but don't like overproduced music which sounds excessively 'photoshopped' or DAW-made.

The issue for me is, I rarely find the inspiration and brilliance of ideas which the old classics had in their prime. I mean, when I listen to songs like The Grand Parade Of Lifeless Packaging, The Lamia, Trilogy, Long Distance Runaround and tens or even hundreds of others... it's not the analog sound or the technical wizardy which captivates me, it's just that I think "how the hell could they come up with something like this?!". It's the mix of originality and straight brilliance of the compositions which really amazes me, then as the icing in the cake comes that those guys were excellent players and the sound is natural and warm, but these are only accessories. It's the inspiration they had which amazes me.

And, I say very sadly, in modern prog I find many good music, sometimes original, sometimes with great skill, sometimes with good sound... but very very rarely do I find that kind of brilliant inspiration. In the 70s some of the known names released an album and you could buy it with confidence, many times you made a great purchase. In the last years I have spent quite a lot of money in albums I finally do not listen to because even if they are good, they don't really inspire me, and I become more and more wary of spending money in modern prog, I tend to listen to what I can in bandcamp, progstreaming etc, but not so much buying I must admit, because I'm afraid it's a waste of money, something I will not listen to anymore within one year, it's just adding jewel cases to my collection.

A proof that the key was 'inspiration' and not the competence of the musicians is that those same musicians who made all those great albums in the 70s, for the biggest part have been unable to produce comparable music once the muse of the time and the place and the spirit was gone. It's not enough being a good musician, you need to be touched by the muses in order to produce real masterpieces. And for whatever reason, the muses are not busy with prog right now. But kudos to the modern bands who try, we need them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:02
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ I'm definitely gonna look for Moraine and Backhand (I skimmed through a few songs on youtube).

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yeah... Backhand might be one of those best appreciated live. Phil Naro on stage is a god... and I did love the belt buckle haha.

Now Moraine.  A group of the nicest people you could ever meet....on a label headed by one of the sweetest people you could ever meet.  Even if we hadn't become good friends with them I still would heartily recommend their music. That new album is chock full of killer sh*t man. 

 Any group that reaches into the untapped gold mine of Chinese folk for inspiration is definitely keeping the progressive rock spirit alive. That  earns serious Micky points there. A very unique sound and style. A killer band live, and just as good IMO on album.  fwiw  I acutally read and completely enjoyed Dennis' book on his time in China.  What an interesting man he is.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:13
As an example that the issue does not lie that much in the frequent 'photoshopping' of modern studio music, if you see most of the DVDs Yes released in the 2000's, their sound was also very much photoshopped, you see them playing live but the sound quality is pretty much that of a studio album, I'm pretty certain that mistakes were corrected, pitch defects were adjusted, and even if I have no proof I'm quite sure that there are even some overdubs to the original live sound.

And yet, when I see them playing Heart Of The Sunrise or And You And I, I can't help a smile on my face and thinking 'what a great song this was'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 07:43
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


The issue for me is, I rarely find the inspiration and brilliance of ideas which the old classics had in their prime. I mean, when I listen to songs like The Grand Parade Of Lifeless Packaging, The Lamia, Trilogy, Long Distance Runaround and tens or even hundreds of others... it's not the analog sound or the technical wizardy which captivates me, it's just that I think "how the hell could they come up with something like this?!". It's the mix of originality and straight brilliance of the compositions which really amazes me, then as the icing in the cake comes that those guys were excellent players and the sound is natural and warm, but these are only accessories. It's the inspiration they had which amazes me.

 
 
completely agree . and I maintain that there is something about the effect your 'first love' has.
It imprints on you and molds the way you see everything after.
 
if you grew up with old prog, loving it, it doesn't mean you wont like everything new, but you have a deep emotional connection to your first love that cant be duplicated.
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 08:34
My dad feels that way about his beer. He's a Tuborg man - just like his dad was. Give him any other beer spanning from all over the globe - pilseners, ales, stouts you name em, he'd still rather have a 'grøn Tuborg' (green Tuborg). It's not that he doesn't appreciate good beer, but he just can't seem to shake his first love.

My first real musical love was Pink Floyd, but instead of captivating me in a craving for a particular sound it's continued to push me into new and untried areas of music: electronic because of Rick Wright, avantguarde and Krautrock because of Ummagumma, metal because of the riff from In The Flesh, folk and all of it's compatriots because of albums like More and Obscured by Clouds. 
In fact, I see my own history with music like a tree with huge and intricate branches - all of it starting out in the roots where Floyd resides. 
....and because discovery more than often leads to new discoveries, this tree will likely see space before I snuff it.

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 08:45
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

My dad feels that way about his beer. He's a Tuborg man - just like his dad was. Give him any other beer spanning from all over the globe - pilseners, ales, stouts you name em, he'd still rather have a 'grøn Tuborg' (green Tuborg). It's not that he doesn't appreciate good beer, but he just can't seem to shake his first love.

My first real musical love was Pink Floyd, but instead of captivating me in a craving for a particular sound it's continued to push me into new and untried areas of music: electronic because of Rick Wright, avantguarde and Krautrock because of Ummagumma, metal because of the riff from In The Flesh, folk and all of it's compatriots because of albums like More and Obscured by Clouds. 
In fact, I see my own history with music like a tree with huge and intricate branches - all of it starting out in the roots where Floyd resides. 
....and because discovery more than often leads to new discoveries, this tree will likely see space before I snuff it.

 
well of course you couldn't sit and listen to Floyd for the rest of your life - I certainly didn't stop looking for new music after discovering Genesis..
 
good lord I have thousands of albums, CDs, tapes, etc, every genre imaginable.
one thing would lead to another, or just taking chances on unknowns .. I discovered a ton of music I love that way.
I wasn't even listening to prog for the last 20 years, except for Genesis and Pink Floyd, etc .. that I didn't even call 'prog'  I just referred to them as a few of my favourite bands.
 
that said .. it just happens to be a good handful of these prog bands that give me a certain kind of emotional boost/joy that I haven't found in other music.  That's the bond I have with them that I haven't found with other music ...
 
I can list a hundred bands I love and appreciate - old and new ...  but  .... they just don't go as deep..
and it's my guts - not my mind - I cant change it - it's just what it is
 
 
 
 
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 09:00
Well the thread is called 'why old prog - for me - is better than new prog'
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 09:08
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well the thread is called 'why old prog - for me - is better than new prog'
 
yup :)
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 09:55
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

It is a hard question for me to answer why I like old prog more than new in a few words or sentences-I guess because my favourite band split in 1980, my favourite musician died in 1977. There are other reasons, but I can't seem to put it into words, sorry.
I have been doing some thinking on this, and I can sum up what I like about old prog, and why I don't listen to much new recordings, that is "Atmosphere". Atmosphere is just about the most important thing that hooks me in music, and allows me to appreciate it and find merit in it. It is not the only thing, but the most important one for me.
                  Recordings from the older period have a certain atmosphere (or what some call a "vibe") that is missing from the newer ones. 
                      Now, some may like the atmosphere created in newer music more than old, and I am ok with that. To each his or her own, I guess.
                        In classical music, as well, atmosphere plays a VERY important role in my appreciation of it, and I love Historical recordings (those recorded before 1960) mainly because of the inimitable one created in recordings of the 1930s, 1940s, etc.
                      This is my slant on things, and it is just me, and I am no more right or wrong about it than anybody else, I guess.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 10:00
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

The issue for me is, I rarely find the inspiration and brilliance of ideas which the old classics had in their prime. I mean, when I listen to songs like The Grand Parade Of Lifeless Packaging, The Lamias... "how the hell could they come up with something like this?!". It's the mix of originality and straight brilliance of the compositions which really amazes me, then as the icing in the cake comes that those guys were excellent players and the sound is natural and warm, but these are only accessories. It's the inspiration they had which amazes me.

A friend of mine suggested that I pick any chord sequence in a fake (or real) book , pick one or two other, make the first sound quiet, slow pace, the second dramatic and loud, another at faster pace, and it'd feel like Genesis. Try it and let's see if you find a great Genesis-like song...Maybe the wizard in you will reveal itself after all !!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2015 at 10:07
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

The issue for me is, I rarely find the inspiration and brilliance of ideas which the old classics had in their prime. I mean, when I listen to songs like The Grand Parade Of Lifeless Packaging, The Lamias... "how the hell could they come up with something like this?!". It's the mix of originality and straight brilliance of the compositions which really amazes me, then as the icing in the cake comes that those guys were excellent players and the sound is natural and warm, but these are only accessories. It's the inspiration they had which amazes me.

A friend of mine suggested that I pick any chord sequence in a fake (or real) book , pick one or two other, make the first sound quiet, slow pace, the second dramatic and loud, another at faster pace, and it'd feel like Genesis. Try it and let's see if you find a great Genesis-like song...Maybe the wizard in you will reveal itself after all !!
 
excellent - the only thing missing would be the inventive intriguing lyrics, the sense of humor, the keyboards, gabriel's voice, the slow build to a climactic finish, the soul,
 
 
but other than than - it'd be pure Genesis
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